I bought a container full of Chinese electric excavators. Here's what showed up
electrek.co
electrek.co
First, they are very wobbly and you're gonna be limited by that. You really need a fair amount of surface contact and a robust counterweight when you're extending the arm and moving boulders, pulling out roots, or digging into hard soil.
Second, you might look at specs and say "oh, cool, digging depth of 5 ft, I don't need more!". Except, this is attainable in one specific (and awkward) position of the excavator's boom and arm. It's less than that across most of the movement range.
Another thing to keep in mind that this is not like buying a car. An excavator or a tractor deprecates far more slowly, and many private owners keep them for 20-30 years. A diesel excavator will need DIY maintenance and simple repairs, but it should hold up for life. Battery-powered equipment will probably need new battery packs before that. Just something to keep in mind when figuring out the pros and cons. If you're in the suburbs, noise is a concern, but then, you honestly don't need your own excavator...
There are still tractors and excavators from the 50's in regular use.
> Battery-powered equipment will probably need new battery packs before that.
It's a tiny 10kWh battery, $1000 - $2000. It looks like about 6 hours / cycle, so that's ~4000 of work time, longer if you don't mind reduced capacity. That's quite comparable to a diesel which needs an overhaul every ~10,000 hours.
Yes, a private owner might keep a tractor for decades, but probably not using it for hours every single day and definitely not without some pretty significant repairs; the cost of a new 200ah battery pack is nothing compared to a diesel engine rebuild.
I... Tend to suspect other parts on these things will be unacceptably worn long before the battery craps out.
Once you've dug away the floor enough, I imagine it's harder to get it out.
A 38-ton electric track excavator that requires a cable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYuYgPv8s5c
In some countries things like pollution and noise matters. And China went all in on batteries.
I don't know where the poster is but Europe has very loud cities. Oslo is particularly quiet and car free in the centre and almost every other city I travel to in Europe seems loud and hectic in comparison.
I'm just a homeowner with a decent size piece of land and lots of trees. The ground is glacial till/drumlin, so rocks vary from gravel, to bowling balls and table size boulders.
I have a 7,000 lb excavator and couldn't imagine using smaller for my needs, but there is a right size for everyone!
I'd love it if mine were electric. I don't use it all of the time or all day, but the smoking old diesel is not the part of it that I enjoy.
Consequently, I recently bought a 1.3T micro excavator. It’s only 36” wide and less than 8’ tall, and even shorter with the canopy off. It opens up a whole new world of jobs that I can do without breaking my back, but it cannot come close to doing the same amount of work as the bigger machine.
Recently, I mucked out a livestock shelter with the micro machine, as my mini could barely reach into the structure without bumping the roof. The micro can drive all around in the structure; however, it can barely reach high enough to dump its bucket into the dump trailer. As a result, the small machine made a big pile outside the structure, then the big machine loaded it into the trailer.
Each machine did its portion of the work at least twice as fast as the other would take. It was a great demonstration of using the right tool for the job.
First, these machines are extremely unstable. You can find videos of people getting thrown off these micro-machines or laying them on their side. While removing the human operator would lower the center of gravity slightly, I would not expect that to be enough to change the equation.
Second, operating the machine involves sensing force feedback from the machine as it encounters resistance. I am not sure how that feedback could be translated to a remote operator. The operator seat also gives the best vantage point for seeing where you're driving, swinging the arm, and using the bucket/attachment.
Sure, you might be able to upgrade the controls to use solenoids for remote piloting, sensors on the hydraulics to send force feedback to your controller joysticks, and add a FPV camera system and AR headset that gives roughly the same visual perspective. Those extra systems would likely double or triple the cost of the machine. Even then, I think those solutions would be grossly inferior to the sensory feedback (and overall visceral experience) that you get from sitting on the machine and operating it directly.
For perspective, I spent less than $6K for a brand new machine, a pallet full of attachments (quick connect, two augers, several buckets, rake, and grapple), as well as a variety of performance and convenience upgrades (oil cooler/filter, swing motor cushion valve block, hydraulic thumb, auxiliary valves, and much more). At the end of the day, that is significantly less than the medical costs involved with repairing an intestinal hernia or ruptured disc.
The diggers don't move, they're fixed in position, and don't rotate, but otherwise you have full control of the arm using the normal stick-type controls.
My 4yo daughter picked it up far quicker than myself despite me being a life-long gamer, but we all had a fantastic time.
There are various games set up with different type of "diggers" such as "hook a duck"; with a hook on the end of the arm, 10-pin bowling; with a mini wrecking ball on the end of the arm, tyre stacking, where you drive a weird looking machine with pincers and rear wheel steering (that one was challenging) and of course "dig a hole".
Ever better is hiring a mini-digger from your local plant hire company when you’ve got some real work to do
Without that, maybe the topic is about something like the customs and payment process.
I only clicked through as I expected something unusually-interesting, but read it anyway because electrified big-kid toys.
We've seen the famed "no-name diesel-powered Chinese mini-excavator bought at auction for $5,200" and I'd be lying if I say the thought hasn't crossed my mind ;)
An all electric excavator seems even cooler... now to leave the city.
This is why when I see a $1 stepper motor on AliExpress, or a YouTube review of some cheap Vevor tool, or a shipping container of electric miniexcavators, I realize this is China being a teenager, learning how to be an adult. And they are a lot bigger than Japan, and are going to have a bigger impact than Toyota, or Sony, or Mitsubishi.
And this is why I hate Trump. Because he is completely right about how much China is gaining on us, but he has no understanding of how or why, and is therefore doing absolutely nothing to actually help us maintain our manufacturing power.
US: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_S...
China: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China
That’s like a 1/3rd reduction in workforce.
The analysis of losing unproductive workers and replacing them with highly skilled STEM graduates seems like a recipe for upset when a healthy economy needs more than just STEM.
Will there be as many cheap workers as last couple decades pouring 100 years worth of US concrete in 3? No, hence why all the upfront build infra investment right now, while blue collar still somewhat plentiful and cheap. Meanwhile, tons of resources pouring into automation / humanoid robots, because at PRC scale, IMO can't really immigrate/migrant worker way out of issue. Not saying it's not possible, see meme of circle around Asia where 50% of humans live. There's likely still going to be a lot of accessible cheap bodies around if culture willing to tolerate it.
The broader picture is big % (like 30%+) of PRC workforce has been (and will be until they die) bluntly... net drag. There were always 100s of millions of farming households (functionally a jobs program) and informal workers spinning wheels doing shit all. All the labourers and workers pouring concrete and building factories were only ever fraction of PRC workforce. PRC losing the fraction that doesn't do much and replacing it with a smaller fraction that does a lot, and when aggregate # of workers that does a lot is 2x-3x more than peers (vs past where peers had orders of magnitude more skilled than PRC), then that's much better net position for future when competing on high tech / high value. Another added benefit of not having 100s of millions of excess mouth to feed and fuel and future PRC demographics is also going to enable strategic autarky like US. IMO PRC "finite" still too much. There are a lot of benefits to where PRC demographics is trending within our lifetimes. Of course if they don't figure out TFR in 30-40 years things will get real bad in 60-70 years, but that's time frame too distant to extrapolate.
IMO housing will sort itself out if you consider reverse of 4:2:1 is 4 households / wealth transfers to the 1. Every married couple and their kids eventually has access to ~4-8+ housing units. Hence IMO even TFR will sort itself out once housing pressure / availability disspates by virtue demand decreasing due to less people. Of course transition can be very difficult/painful/messy, i.e. demand in T1/2/3 cities still going to be high, a lot of freed up housing is going to be rural, like all the abandoned villages in JP. Maybe remote work + cottage culture will finally pick up in PRC once most families inherit some rural land to chill on. TBH I can imagine PRC life being incredibly more relaxed once less people compete for resources.
As for freedoms, depends on which kind. I think most will be satiated with increased material prosperity / fully automated luxury communism meme conveniences. There's plenty of Chinese diasphora in the west jaded with western political process, and I wager that trend with continue with how things are progressing. Plenty of international students with first hand experience become more pro CCP. Ultimately people are going to decide if they want freedom to talk shit about unresponsive governments that get nothing done or crusing along in their self driving cars enabled by surveillance state.
And let's not pretend immigration driven demographic growth strategies are not bringing their share of social problems... in fact it's probably one of the largest sources of domestic instability being interrogated by such countries right now.
They have very real understanding that all of it could be unilaterally taken away by the state at any time, so even if they flash their wealth they keep their mouths shut. At the same time many do buy in to state propoganda.
But what of their children who are born into comfort of middle class and are less materialistic and willing to fight to justice?
As they should, particularly the obscene rich who could not have possibly gotten obscenely rich without shady sheningans that _should_ get a CCDI visit. There's tacit understanding that phase of wealth accumulation is mostly over, and if you lie low, keep you mouth shut, behave, you can likely live comfortably but quietly enjoying the misbegotten gains from being fortunate beneficiary of "let some get rich first" period.
>willing to fight to justice
Over what? Peak covid19 lockdown brought a few white paper protestors and negligible shanghai libtard youths coming to the streets. IMO they're unlikely to experience that tier of adversity short of another blackswan event. Many of them are guanxied into comfy enough work opportunities with their parents nest eggs to coast on eventually. I don't really see any particuarly incendiary justice issues to fight over from this cohort except feminists/LGBT and related identity politics, but society skews old and conservative, those cohorts losing fight due to demographics for a long time regardless. They'll be even more quiet, because society is overwhelmingly indifferent to them. Which is not to say against, just not proactively endorse. And with cultural shift west is trending, there isn't exactly going to be a liberal model to follow without rest of country mocking them. Baizuo is a dying breed, west is increasingly not a place to emulate, especially when many international students and diasphora with experience in west is getting CCP pilled after experiencing western dysfunction, exacerbated by anti PRC sentiment.
Everyone else is going to be too busy with the grind like SKR and JP trying to fight for scraps with academic/skilled workforce inflation/overcapacity and eventually accept their lot in life for being statistically mediocre. This is probably where the real discontent will swell, fighting for their share of more materialism. And IMO that's partly why CCP focus very hard to indigenize everything and embrace material model (i.e. not pure profit) of industry - they want be able to drive cost of everything down so masses can buy $20,000 cars that's comparable to a $60,000 car - there's still a lot of headroom of satiating masses with nice things.
And yet the latest supra's are just badge engineered BMW's, and a lot of their cars are being recalled for engine problems, or because the wheels fall off...
Tariffs seem like a way to help American manufacturing compete given all of that
https://bid.barnoneauction.com/lot/230633363/2024-agt-mh12r-...
Given the usage pattern of an excavator, which is that typically its sitting around until you need to use it nonstop for several days, I like the option of just filling it up with gas.
I'd like to see a more substantial version, these look like they would last about 15 uses before breaking and where do you get replacement parts?
The linked through site from the company says that they stock spare parts in the US (in Florida). Their warranty is for 1 year/1000 hours operation.
For the electric ones? Your guess is as good as mine but the fact that he says they sell parts makes me think that they're more tightly integrated machines and it's not as easy to source parts the gas ones so he buys parts with each order.
The fact that the author is trumpeting the fact that he as a dealer has parts tells me that there's a need to, which I think is a downgrade over the gas equipment.
Source: have a buddy who imports comparable gas power equipment
Son to be $21,560 I guess.
Also:
> the NESHER NX2500 is priced at US $19,600.
He's not going to get rich from it, he's spending thousands per excavator to import it, plus a lot of time. It certainly doesn't seem wasteful.
You can also find some deals on branded equipment on gov auction sites. People are buying lots there, refurbishing when required and reselling for similar markups.
All of the options require a bit of legwork and elbow grease.
Basically, you're paying more but they're taking all of the hassle and worry and a large part of the risk out of the operation for their cut and you're not paying much more than you otherwise would for the service.
His gross profit is probably about $12k per.
Shipping is probably about $4k/container. It used to be $2k for a 40-foot before the pandemic.
He also has to front the money and carry the inventory, which is the real problem. The big manufacturers finance their equipment, which he probably can't do. So he needs to pay cash up front. Maybe he needs to sell 4 to cover costs. But then he needs to buy the next shipment, which'll eat up his cash flow.
FYI, this is the problem with inventory financing (or lack thereof): you need money to buy and carry the inventory. If you're not careful you'll lose money on the float.