This is the kind of thing where it is warranted that the feds gets every single wiretap, interception, and surveillance possible on everyone involved in the zizian movement.
In particular the attack on border patrol was obviously random and illogical. And the fact that no one was convicted of the Pennsylvania murders seems to reflect more on the police and prosecutors than the intelligence of the perpetrators.
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/albany/news/fbi...
More information from the police report:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wycOK3UbaQ9JWZuvo2gpZiDT-0t...
On January 20, 2025, at approximately 3:00 pm, an on-duty, uniformed United States Border Patrol (USBP) Agent initiated a stop of a blue 2015 Toyota Prius Hatchback with North Carolina license plate number KLA2040 to conduct an immigration inspection as it was driving southbound on Interstate 91 in Coventry, Vermont. The registered owner of the vehicle, Felix Baukholt, a citizen of Germany, appeared to have an expired visa in a Department of Homeland Security database. YOUNGBLUT was driving the Prius, and Baukholt was the lone passenger in the Prius. Multiple uniformed Border Patrol Agents were present at the stop in three USBP vehicles with emergency lights illuminated.
(later in the same document)
Investigators had been performing periodic surveillance of Baukholt and YOUNGBLUT since on or about Tuesday, January 14, 2025. A concerned citizen-an employee of a hotel in Lyndonville, Vermont--contacted law enforcement after a male and a female had checked into the hotel to report concerns about them, including that they appeared to be dressed in all-black tactical style clothing with protective equipment, with the woman, later identified as YOUNGBLUT, carrying an apparent firearm in an exposed-carry holster. Investigators with VSP and Homeland Security Investigations attempted to initiate a consensual conversation with Baukholt and YOUNGBLUT, but they declined to have an extended conversation, claiming that they were in the vicinity to look at purchasing property. After the contact with law enforcement, the pair checked out of the Lyndonville hotel on the afternoon of January 14, 2025. Investigators later observed the pair in similar tactical dress on Sunday, January 19, 2025, walking in downtown Newport; YOUNGBLUT was observed carrying a handgun at that time.
Presumably the BP had a license plate scanner and this triggered.
Reading through zizan stuff they have this idea of “collapse the timeline” which justifies extreme violence in response to subjugation. The idea is if you are being subjugated you should act with extreme violence to deter people from subjugating you, and since you will not be subjugated the path always leads to violence, hence you should “collapse the timeline” and just go straight to violence.
The thing is, the US border patrol is not going to back down from your extreme threats of violence so if you want to collapse the timeline you mine as well put a bullet in yourself because that is how things are going to end — and did end — for them.
Not to put too fine a point on it, these people don't look like the sort who might get "randomly" stopped by the Border Patrol for an "immigration inspection."
I’ve read a couple rationalist blogs for over a decade and this past week is the first I’ve ever heard of these “Zizians”
Pretty hard to do that when the beliefs explicitly endorse murder. Ziz used to run a blog on which she made thinly veiled death threats, argued for a personal philosophy of hair-trigger escalation and massive retribution, raged at the rationalist community for not agreeing with her on that philosophy and on theories of transness, and considered most people on Earth to be irredeemably evil for eating meat.
This is a free country (disputably) and you should be able to think and say whatever you want, but I also think it is reasonable for law enforcement in the investigation of said crimes to also investigate links to other members in the movement.
It doesn't work. Every single time a radicalized member of the marginalized community does this kind of crime, the numbered-letter-agency dutifully reports, that they knew the person to be radicalized, but had nothing to act on, because a lot of people have weird violence-approving beliefs, talk about them openly or with friends and very few actually hijack a Boeing or two. Those who plan to do things also happen to learn about op-sec mistakes of those caught before them.
Israel knew about Hamas, and the russian empire of 19th century knew about anarchists. Pouring a lot of resources into suppressing all of that didn't do jack shit in the long term.
There are hundreds of thousands of rationalists (to a greater or lesser extent). Very few go shoot people.
Cops can do a lot without it. They can choose what leads to follow.
But not sure what you are suggesting with respect to wiretapping.
I don't exactly see how it's different from a group of habitual alcoholics discussing politics and having a fatal disagreement, which is a normal day of the week in any police department with enough demographics to have this sort of low-effort low-gain crime. It's more scandalous because of details and people involved are more interesting, but everyone will forget about it after a week, as they don't matter.
Intent, premeditation, possibly being designated a terrorist group depending on other factors. Big differences.