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Comment by deltarholamda | Hacker News Reader

My partner got the "you must download iOS 18.3, it has security fixes!" message, and did so.

It defaults to Apple Intelligence "on", which they had already declined in the last update. So, turned it off in settings. Then discovered they had to turn it off in each app that uses it individually.

That is not good, Apple. Terrible UX.

All the other changes were just as big of a hit. Mail went wonky (the Categories view is not great). The iMessage apps list is now gigantic and many of them you can't turn off, only reorder.

Honestly, this Wall Street-influenced AI goldrush is getting out of hand. Apple used to be better than this. The last updates to iOS did not make the devices better, just different. I'm staying on iOS 17 as long as I can, my feeble iPhone 14 won't do Apple Intelligence anyway, but I also don't want 18 and its changes.

Honestly, I'm about ready to just move to a flip phone. The only feature I really need is a WiFi hotspot.

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Yes, it feels like Apple is increasingly embracing dark patterns.

The fact that they are withholding security updates for older iOS versions from devices that support newer iOS versions is also one. (E.g. I can’t upgrade from 17.7.1 to 17.7.2 now, currently staying on iOS 17 like the parent, although it was possible for a few weeks from mid-November to mid-December, but I had somehow missed that. In other cases the updates have been restricted to older devices to start with.)

Furthermore, patterns like the one noted in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42899637.

It's a disaster for Apple devices breached by an iOS zero day. A "workaround" is to track every outbound network connection, block C&C traffic at the router, then keep using older iOS-infected-with-dormant-malware.

If attackers create ransomware (instead of spyware) for iOS, governments will have to force Apple to enable 3rd party backup and restore to a clean DFU install of their existing iOS version.

Currently testing Google Pixel tablet and phone with GrapheneOS, where Debian Linux VMs will be possible in Android 16. Better security, weaker hardware, less usability, but at least the OS isn't channeling HAL 9000, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARJ8cAGm6JE

First I hear about Debian on pixel phones with graphene. Do you have a link to information on this?

Any Android 16 device that supports AVF, which includes Google Pixels, but excludes Samsung.

https://www.androidauthority.com/android-16-linux-terminal-d...

To some extent, Apple has been like this a long time. They broke the compiler suite on macOS 10.3. Or rather, left it broken; there was a GCC ABI change and Apple did not deliver a GCC to macOS 10.3 that could produce binaries compatible with the new-ABI libraries Apple pushed in a security update. To continue compiling C++ code, in particular, for 10.3, you had to upgrade to 10.4 and get the latest Xcode there, it had a backwards compatibility setting.

The message was clear: if you develop for Apple, you need to always have the latest and greatest, because Apple simply doesn't care about you if you don't.

Apple is not for nieches, that’s clear.

> Then discovered they had to turn it off in each app that uses it individually.

Technically the "Learn from this App" feature isn't an Apple Intelligence feature. It's been there since at least iOS 15 in 2021. I haven't heard people really discuss it at all until recently.

My understanding is that it basically just enables suggestions. So, ordering things on your share sheet according to usage, search suggestions, the little button in Maps that navigates you to the location of your next calendar event, etc.

It could still really benefit from a "turn off all" button, though.

> enables suggestions

Dear Siri-Clippy, you were never granted permission to spider every decrypted message in E2EE messaging apps. Since you granted yourself this permission by default, please provide a detailed report of all data derived from spidered data, and instructions on how to securely delete said data from disk.

You’re concerned about your phone keeping data on your phone, that it derived from data on your phone? At that point I think you are so far outside of the norm as to be considered a fringe use case.

> derived from data on your phone

By violating the application sandbox!!!

Some E2EE messenger apps have "data at rest" encryption of local messages. How is Apple protecting the spidered app data?

Dec 2024, https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/us-officials-urge-amer...

> Amid an unprecedented cyberattack on telecommunications companies such as AT&T and Verizon, U.S. officials have recommended that Americans use encrypted messaging apps to ensure their communications stay hidden from foreign hackers. The hacking campaign, nicknamed Salt Typhoon by Microsoft, is one of the largest intelligence compromises in U.S. history, and it has not yet been fully remediated.

Do you actually have any reason to think it reads notification contents? This feature has never done anything that made me think it is. (genuine question, I’m in the EU and we don’t have Apple Intelligence here)

To be precise, there are two functions, both defaulting on for Siri, each requiring manual, per-application, opt out:

1. "Learn from this app", uses NSUserActivity API: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ge...

2. "Show content in Search", uses Apple Spotlight to index all app data. For an E2EE messenger, that is not only notifications, but all text/image/audio data in message history.

As stated at the top of this subthread, these menu options preceded Apple Intelligence by several years. Implementation would have changed over time.

At that point I think you are so far outside of the norm as to be considered a fringe use case.

So what if he is?

Apple has three trillion dollars. It can put in a "Turn all off" button.

Can you trade money for software quality and complexity forever?

Forever? No.

For our lifetimes? Yes.

What was learned from the cancellation of Apple Car ($10B) and market rejection of Vision Pro?

Siri-Clippy? I did not know they were siblings, but that does explain an awful lot.

Review what knowledgeC.db is used for.

One thing I do not understand is the repeated reminders to use some Apple feature like intelligence or Siri in the settings. It shows up as a badge on the settings app as if there’s an update. And there’s no clear way to dismiss it. You HAVE to click it then cancel the process of setting it up. It’s especially annoying when they do this for paid services from Apple - isn’t that illegal bundling?

macOS workaround: https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/2025/1/7.html

Can also recommend GrapheneOS. It's basically unenshittified Android sans the dark patterns.

"unenshittified" The English language grows and grows. Thanks.

> It defaults to Apple Intelligence "on", which they had already declined in the last update. So, turned it off in settings. Then discovered they had to turn it off in each app that uses it individually.

Same with Siri, by the way. It's especially fun because, even if it's turned off already for every app, it still defaults to turned on for new apps, so you have to remember what additional steps to go through for every new app.

Same with iCloud, too.

As someone who - by default - has Bluetooth disabled, I can safely say: Same with Bluetooth.

I'm slightly annoyed I have to check settings every update, but it's not like it's something new, it has been that way for years.

E: typo

> As someone who - by default - has Bluetooth disabled, I can safely say: Same with Bluetooth.

Bluetooth has to be turned off for every app? I thought there's one switch.

One switch.. that ignores user setting and turns on after every update.

> One switch.. that ignores user setting and turns on after every update.

Ah. That is indeed irritating, but at least it's easily fixed once you know about it, even if it shouldn't have to be. Even when you know it needs to be done, it's very cumbersome to go through every single app, separately toggling off Siri (and, I guess, now Apple Intelligence? I don't know if that's another toggle). Fortunately this process seems to be "sticky" across updates, which is a win, but it still isn't something I should have to do for tons of apps at start, and then for every app I ever install after.

This is why I don't update things anymore. Even if they claim to have security updates. That well has been poisoned. The updates themselves are a security threat.

Same, I only update my bank app and 2FA app. For years I didnt have a bank app installed and only logged in on a laptop.

You know that they occasionally have actual RCE's right?

The megacorps are reporting billions in AI revenue. Does that typically count stuff like this where it’s dark-patterned in? The Google Workspace thing where it’s a support ticket to make it even have a switch would be another example.

It’s starting to seem like admitting people hate this stuff poses a systemic risk to the whole economy, which historically means John Q Taxpayer is about to pick up the tab.

I don't post on hacker news often so forgive me if sharing a link to my own blog post is not kosher. I'll remove it if so.

I've been experimenting with using a flip phone for a few months now. It's got some quirks and has been more interesting of a switch then I thought.

I wrote about it here:

https://www.greghilston.com/post/switching-to-a-flip-phone/

Disclaimer, I have two analytics JS libraries running. One is gA, the other is one I've been meaning to rip out but haven't yet. I also want to add a comment system that ties into say GitHub posts or something else. Open to any advice on making these posts more "hacker" friendly

I find it interesting that a hacker with a flip phone would use analytics at all. Can you explain why you feel this need?

Definitely no need but more of curiosity and current smith of time I'm willing to spend on my site.

I've had my site for many years and the analytics set up were set up from the start. The amount of free time I can decorate to my site and the length of my blocks of free time have drastically changed, which made me focus the time I spend on my site to only writing. I have a large backlog of non writing things I wish to do, but can't justify them as of right now.

I'm going to remove the UI tracking component as I never look at the data. It was just something I thought was neat and was exploring for a work situation at the time.

The usage of GA is nice as it tells me what posts are popular but that's really not important in the grand scheme of things. As I always blog about what I find interesting regardless of how popular it is.

So in short, if I was willing to dedicate my time I spend on my site to non blogging right now, is rip out our of the analytics tool. And look for a replacement on the other, or rip it out entirely.

The flip phone component was mostly to decrease the availability of distractions in my life. Which doesn't necessarily mean I'm against analytics but yeah. I hope that answers your question. Thanks for taking an interest in my setup :)

Apple going full Microsoft

> Apple used to be better than this

Unfortunately I find this to be true for their software in general these days, even outside of the AI junk.

I'll continue to roll my eyes at the "Jobs would have never allowed this" trope because it's often trite, but the fact is Tim Cook is not and has never been a product guy and the polish seems to have long since worn off. Software-wise at least anyway; I'd argue the hardware has never been better.

If it's the software, you should call out Federighi.

I have thought about this actually. Federighi seems to have a positive sentiment for having a sense of humour about himself and managing to deliver presentations sounding the least like C-3PO in human clothes out of all the execs. But I guess the buck does stop with him on this.

We are still living in a world where most people think Apple is still a Jobs-era company. Changes in public perception happen after years of inertia.

Anybody who's opened the App Store or Apple News at any point in the past several years can see the design and ads are just as spammy and ugly as Google and Facebook. anybody without their head innthe sand can see the Apple Intelligence rollout has been as bad as Apple Maps in 2011, and that dark patterns used to opt people in suggest Apple is waving the same AI magic wand at their share price as every other tech company.

Apple News is terrible. The fact that I can't remove the News.app from my computer MacBook Pro is crazy. It's considered an essential part of the OS. What?

I doubt Jobs would have gone for the off-centered camera bump-out. Even the physical design has fallen by the wayside.

Only the Butterfly keyboard stands out to me as something that would have sent Jobs apoplectic. Apple stuff still mostly looks fine IMO, it's them turning themselves into a 'software and services' company that's completely ruined their aesthetic. Their ads are no better than Taboola/Outbrain garbage and are unblockable because they're loaded at the OS-level.

Isn’t every single one of their M series chips currently vulnerable and non fixable to speculative execution attacks? Thats multiple generations of products now that are fast but fundamentally broken.

To save anyone else panicking and/or wasting time searching for more context around this: you only get Apple Intelligence turned on (whether by default or not, I couldn’t say) if both your hardware and geographic region support it [0]. As an owner of a pre-15 iPhone in the EU I can sleep tonight knowing the 18.3 update won’t (yet?) do all these terrible things to my UX.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Intelligence

Apple wants to prove to investors that users are enabling their new “Apple Intelligence” feature. It should be labeled market manipulation.

Honestly I accept advertising in Windows because I haven't paid for it since Windows 7. I am the product.

But I always thought that you pay the Apple premium to get away from monetising shenanigans.

> Honestly, I'm about ready to just move to a flip phone. The only feature I really need is a WiFi hotspot.

Then you could also try a GNU/Linux phone.

Can those actually place/receive phone calls (actual phone calls, not WhatsApp or whatever) and send/receive SMS messages these days? Last I checked, which admittedly was 5+ years ago, the answer ranged from "no" to "sometimes, when the stars align on a Thursday". Merely being phone-shaped does not a phone make.

Yes, I use Lbrem 5 as a daily driver. See also:

https://forums.puri.sm/t/nine-months-librem-5-as-my-only-pho...

https://forums.puri.sm/t/a-l5-review-1-week-to-my-ready-to-s...

Cool, thanks! Looks like they still have a ways to go before some major pain points are ironed out, but at least the phones are actually phones now! I'll have to consider them next time I switch phones as I'd much rather the Linux ecosystem "support everything forever" attitude than the Android tradition of "vendor drops support 1.5 years after purchase".

I'm not completely opposed, but the ones that seem to be worth the effort are still very expensive. The advantage of the flip phone is that it is cheap and durable.

If I need something more robust, I have a laptop. If the flip phone can get me decent internet, I'm good. And if I need something like map directions while I'm driving, well, I can keep my iPhone and just connect it to WiFi.

Pinephone costs $150.

Look at it as a typewriter that knows what you should say. Don't think about it too much.

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