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Comment by jcul | Hacker News Reader

You mean the same inebriation effects but without the same health risks?

I believe there are drugs that act on similar receptors, and are not as toxic or at least don't need to be taken in such high doses for the same effect.

My understanding is that the drug GHB has very similar effects to alcohol, in lower doses, but unfortunately in higher doses is used as a date rape drug.

Alcohol has the benefit of being somewhat naturally occurring. I don't see many other recreational drugs being legalized or so widely used.

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"Kava" is supposed to mimic a drunk, in the way that Kratom mimics opiates and kanna mimics MDMA.

I only know that if you're not careful with kratom it will hurt you thru the exact same mechanisms that opiates do. No idea about dosing or anything on kava or kanna. I tried kanna but only low micro doses. It is like a slight mood elevator at low dosages, like I imagine "a beer with dinner" elevates mood slightly.

2.5 grams of kratom feels exactly like an oxy, down to wanting to tell everyone you really love them and is that shirt felt well it is now

Kratom is definitely something to be wary of. Physical withdrawals similar to opiates with prolonged use and made up of alkaloids we don't know the full safety profile of yet (or at least didn't when it was taking off in popularity.) I would not be surprised to find out morphine is "healthier" for the body. Plus there was that scare around some of the big kratom distributers having batches of the leaves contaminated with heavy metals like lead in products they continued to sell.

Would highly advise people to steer clear of it if not using it for harm reduction though the wisdom of replacing one physically addictive drug with another doesn't seem to bode well either. Not a doctor just my two cents.

okay now do tea

edit: here i'll start

Tea is made from the leaves of trees which leech fluoride into the leaf from the groundwater where it is grown. Cessation of tea ingestion can lead to withdrawals and severe mood changes. Tea has been the proximate cause of at least one major war, but since it was about tea, it was a very civil war.

Kind of a silly comparison. Much of kratom's popularity came about because the alternative is illegal not because of how safe it is or isn't. You can't compare fluoride to unsafe levels of lead. And "cessation of tea ingestion" won't give you literal opiate withdrawals.

Calling it a safe way to do opiates is just irresponsible. It's really not that different from how manufacturers more than a century ago invented opioids and called them non addictive alternatives to morphine.

can you show me where i recommended anyone take it or called it "a safe way to do opiates"?

also can you show me a comparison between the lead levels in kratom and the fluoride (and lead) in tea?

also, don't bother. Imagine shilling for poppy seeds and one specific leaf, but lambasting a leaf from a different tree (coffee, is it because it's coffee and you're a tea drinker?)

Just... don't bother.

I possibly misunderstood you. The way you talked about it initially comparing it to oxy sounded like you were endorsing it as a safe (or legal) alternative. I've seen people endorsing it on HN of all places before and just don't like the way it's often misrepresented as something safe.

I'm still not really sure what your point with the tea is. You don't have to look very hard to see that unregulated kratom being imported from god knows where had a lot of incidents of heavy metal contamination. If this was a well known issue with tea you could buy in stores in the US I'm not aware of it. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S24681...

And I'm not shilling for anything. I don't think people should be taking morphine recreationally either. Kratom blew up the way it did in popularity because people realized it's an opiate you can order legally over the internet. Your response about the tea to my disclaimer that it's not like the other plants you listed makes it sound like you think it's on the same level of safety as tea which it really isn't and people should be aware of that.

I think GP means the taste, not the effects.

There are plenty of drugs that are way better than alcohol if you are looking for a specific effect. Maybe a little too good actually, the toxicity of alcohol acts as a deterrent, no one enjoys hangovers. Most of them are illegal, but alcohol would be too if it wasn't so easy to make and part of our culture. And by the way, alcohol is the most common date rape drug by far.

But most of these drugs are not enjoyable to taste, in fact, many are downright disgusting.

Yes that's is a very good point, I would alcohol is certainly the most popular date rape drug!

Ah. no. sorry. i meant really just tastes like alcohol. but no inebriation or health effects. I really like the taste of alcohol in a drink, but don't want any of the effects.

Ah OK, I often thought the opposite, that people mainly drink for the sugar in beer etc, as well as the alcohol. But I always felt like the kick of the alcohol was just something people came to like as it preceeds the effect.

Otherwise more people might drink vodka and water.

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