Repeat offenders may be responsible for many shark attacks | Hacker News Reader

Repeat offenders may be responsible for many shark attacks

nautil.us

42 pointsrbanffy55 comments

I live in South Africa and anyone who has talked with game rangers has probably heard how lions very rarely prey on humans, but once they’ve done it once, they’ll tend to do it again and again.

Typically victims are people illegally crossing international borders within the large Kruger National Park and the lions who attack them tend to be old solitary males who are starting to get too weak to hunt game and opportunistically try a human they happen across.

They find it works and feeds them so they do it repeatedly.

So if game rangers find a human killed by a lion, they always track the lion down to kill it so as to prevent more deaths of humans.

Lions know not to fuck around with humans, which I always imagined made for a grim day in Simba's circle of life training. ("You must never eat a man, Simba, for if you do, its brothers will remember your face, and they will hunt you down, slit open your belly, and wear your skin as a cloak.")

Big cats who take humans tend not to be particularly bold or daring. Rather, they're injured, sick, or starving; in no condition to take their usual prey, they go for whatever is available including us. I wonder if the same is true of sharks.

> While dogs kill some 30,000 people annually

What's the best way to fend off an aggressive dog (if it is too late and running is not possible)?

In the US, fewer than 50 people per year are killed by dogs. Worldwide the larger numbers are due to rabies. Depending on your locale, you may not need to worry too much. Probably the best way is to be an adult and not an infant.

dogs in usa are 3x more dangerous than lightning.

dogs are 689x less dangerous than traffic accidents.

it's important to spread safety effort proportional to the risk - both on a personal level and a nationwide level.

>dogs are 689x less dangerous than traffic accidents

per mile driven? what are we talking about here, the Ididarod?

All of those figures are per us citizen per year.

Yes but driving is necessary to feed ourselves nowadays. Owning and raising untrained aggressive dogs is not.

Most things in life are unnecessary.

If we start deciding what is necessary or unnecessary for others, then we all would lose.

Disclosure: I very strongly dislike dog ownership.

Is driving unnecessary for people?

It's not black and white. Most of us could reduce the amount that we drive, even if we can't reduce it to zero. It's a mix of necessity, convenience, and recreation.

For some. But it requires life choices that many would find unacceptable.

Yes, for most people.

Even including hire cars etc., I've not even been a driving seat since before 2018.

We could all go back to being homesteaders and walking to market to trade. It would reduce motor vehicle deaths.

However, as a society we have decided that the risk is worth it for the benefits.

For yourself or others?

Weapon obviously. Stone or wooden stick will also do. I carry big umbrella, dogs have no idea what to do once it is deployed. Dogs are cowards, usually only attack defenseless victims.

If you can, get on higher ground (car) so you can kick. Do not allow them to get behind you!

Dogs hate loud sounds, so air horn (on compressed air can), or loud personal alarm are good repellent. Also some fireworks work great.

To deal with dog owners (usual "itjustwantstoplay" or "noproblemnoproblem") scream for help immediately, and record video! Quite often dog owners attack right after their dogs, and make the situation much worse!

> Also some fireworks work great

I’m sorry, but the idea of carrying fireworks and a lighter with you, and thinking you will have time to retrieve them and successfully light the fireworks to fend off an aggressive dog is ridiculous.

Fireworks and lighters are legal in my country, pepper sprays (most humane) are not.

Firecrackers are the most effective way to disperse large pack of dogs. I carry it on hikes.

Lighter is also quite good weapon. Not the BIC type, more like a small blowtorch for melting copper and other metals.

I've not yet been attacked by a large pack of dogs, but I'm having trouble imagining the situation unfolding in a manner leisurely enough that you would be able to fumble through a bag of stuff to find some firecrackers and light them. Is this a failure of imagination on my part?

Not everyone keeps defensive weapons at bottom of backpack.

Pack does not attack fast (as single animal would). They have hierarchy, and first try to encircle victims. The situation will literally unfold in "leisure manner", they have overwhelming force, and are not in hurry. They also go first after smaller targets (children, your dogs). You will have a lot of time to watch.

Often you find some semi-safe spot (tree, high ground), but can not leave.

The danger is not to get bitten a few times by alpha dogs, but to let attack continue long enough, you get overwhelmed and all dogs join in.

Thanks

In the Western US, there are places and times when you could start a wildfire. Better get ready for life-altering legal bills.

Still funny to imagine. But if you replace “dog” with “bear” it would make more sense for my locale and experience.

Do you hike in Chernobyl?

Kick it to keep distance. Obviously if you have a weapon use it. If you can get to high ground - on top of a car, on stairs, do that.

If it gets you you just need to let it chomp on whatever bit it has, and use the rest of your body to crush, choke, break it's legs, etc.

Screaming a lot so people come to help probably makes sense too.

If it's a pack of dogs and you're by yourself you're probably screwed. Maybe try to keep them all in front of you, don't let any circle behind you.

One tip I read somewhere is that if it is attacking someone else (e.g. a child) never try to pull it off as it will cause much worse damage through tearing. Instead try to lift it by its hind legs (which disorients it) and punch it as hard as you can in the ribs (try to break them). Hopefully it will let go.

If you're worried about yourself, some kind of implement (e.g. a stick). I often do this near me when I go out running as people let their dogs off the leash and they can sometimes be aggressive.

Was jumped by two large dogs while walking my own once. Long story but my two dogs survived but were badly bitten and torn up. I have a pistol but strapping on a holster every time I walk my dogs is ridiculous. My neighbors said to get the pepper spray gel and tie it to your leash then it’s always with you. Hats what I did.

Btw running from an aggressive dog will probably make things worse. Now they see you as a prey animal and they’re way faster than a person.

My tried and tested remedy for disrespectful dogs is a hearty slap on the muzzle from above with an open hand. They don't expect it and it seems to hurt them quite a lot. I even put a rather dominant Ovcharka female in her place with this. (At the time, I didn't know how hard they can bite.)

Running away is not a good idea. Better run towards the dog. Then it will probably turn around, unless it is really sure of itself. In my experience, being convincingly dominant towards dogs is enough to fend them off. Grab something as a weapon if it helps you to be confident. If the dog bites, it will probably only bite very briefly and then let go again. Holding and shaking people like prey is unlikely if it hasn't been conditioned. I don't know what you can do in this case. Try as best you can to injure the animal. You are also dangerous and should let the dog know.

> In my experience, being convincingly dominant towards dogs is enough to fend them off.

The same holds for most non-herbivores, at least until they're so much bigger than you that they don't have to consider you a threat at all (e.g. brown bears).

There's something of an evolutionary angle to it: a carnivore with even moderate injuries might starve, while a herbivore who doesn't die of infection will probably live (grass has a hard time running away, after all). This makes carnivores way more likely to back off from the possibility of injury, with herbivores more likely to hold their ground or even reflexively go on the attack against an equal threat.

I fended up a genuinely scary pack of dogs with the arms up, yell, and be dominant approach one time. It worked despite being a genuinely dangerous situation. Not long after, I was scared shitless when a rat ran towards me (rather than away), despite me gesturing to it to do the opposite. Literally fled in full flight. Animals are funny.

》hearty slap on the muzzle

I think you may have very very nasty suprise in western country. Dogs there NEVER wear muzzle. Plus touching a dog, who has not bitten you yet, is a crime there.

》If the dog bites, it will probably only bite very briefly and then let go again. Holding and shaking people like prey is unlikely if it hasn't been conditioned. I don't know what you can do in this case

Pitbulls have reflex to bite, and hold no matter of what. They were bread to kill bulls this way! Pit will not let go, even when stabbed with a knife!

Owners should carry "break stick", it gets stuffed into mouth to force it open (break the grip). 60% of deaths from dogs in west are because of this reflex! We have no rabies, we have pits!

Yes, I meant the dog's snout. I'm not a native speaker. Whether something is a crime or not is of pretty little interest to me when it comes to an aggressive dog. Last year I had to kick a dog hard and chase it away while jogging in the park. Against whom should charges be brought? I didn't leave my personal details.

Pit bulls are an exception. Most dogs are not pit bulls.

By the way, my life doesn't revolve around attacking dogs. That only happens very rarely here.

Muzzle is a perfectly good word to use here, and your meaning was clear.

I assume they meant muzzle in the sense of snout (even though that's not really accurate). And if a dog is starting to attack someone and they touch it, absolutely no one is going to arrest or prosecute the person for it.

And the owner is going to be a lot more worried about their dog being put down and being in legal trouble themselves.

> Dogs there NEVER wear muzzle

"Muzzle" in this context is a synonym for "snout," not a muzzle guard like you're thinking of.

If you have time, wrap your arm in your jacket and shove that into its mouth. Otherwise bare arm as deep into its mouth as you can. In both cases use your other arm to strangle it.

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu

Failing that, I have heard that removing your jacket, wrapping it around one arm, and allowing the dog to bite that arm is a decent move, in that it will hopefully protect you long enough to make use of humanity's strengths (finding a tool to do extreme violence with, and community to rescue you).

If there's multiple dogs and no one around to help you're probably screwed.

Its going to bite leg, arm or throat and then hang on to the prey shaking , while the rest of the pack catches up. If you have anything beyond your fist, use it to punch the nerve rich noose. Alternative get a grip and strangle it.

I once read a guide about this that I'll never be able to track down, but it was quite gruesome and stuck in my head.

Cool. So too large to fit in the margin.

googling probably provides better advice but it said basically - if you have time, wrap your shirt around your non-dominant hand. try and keep that hand shoved deep in the dog's mouth while you punch it in the neck until it's dead.

googling generally recommends "get the fuck away" which is probably a better approach whenever possible lol

It is the same with dogs. The "reactive" dogs are just aggressive repetitive offenders, my guess around 10%. My hobby is to count dog attacks in public park, some dogs attack 50 times a week! Usually other dogs, but sometimes people, mostly children!

How could a single dog attack 50 times a week including children? A single attack of a child (bites drawing blood) is usually enough to get the dog put down.

Or are you defining an attack as barking and snarling without an actual bite?

Where did you get this definition of an attack? If I slap or kick someone, it is not an attack, because there is no blood? And if I pull out knife on someone, it is not an attack, because "it was just a threat"?!

Dictionary definition is: an aggressive and violent act against a person or place

Not just a bite, but scratches, even jumping. Not everyone wants to get their shit spread all over them!

Edit: If you go with legal definition of an attack, we should include legal definitions of battery, harassment, assault, sexual harassment...

Even blackmail or abduction would fit, "do not ran, or my dog will attack you"!

I don’t know if you live in the US, but you would get laughed at if a dog barked at you and you described it as “I was attacked by a dog”.

A “dog attack” means something specific and it’s not the generic definition of an attack.

“More than one successive bite is often called a dog attack,“

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_bite

Where did you get this definition of an attack?

Many state laws and local ordinances use that very definition as described by GP.

In south Dallas there use to be packs of roaming dogs leftover from fighting rings and other bad owners. They would kill anything they could catch. The city never did anything until the dogs dragged an 8 year old into an alley and killed him. After that, the city begrudgingly started picking up strays. I’ve been attacked twice walking my dogs and the city and police do nothing. Like literally say “we’re not going to do anything“ and hang up.

…some dogs attack 50 times a week!

A single dog, seven attacks per day in a week? I’m extremely skeptical. That, or put your spreadsheet down and call animal control.

Sharks ?, but as this thread has gone to the dogs,hmmmmm, its all body language and attitude with dogs, especialy if they are free and on somewhat nuetral ground, but even on home turf they will be very hesitant to actualy bite someone who is dismissive, but unless you are actualy and truely unconcerned, you can be in trouble. Me experience with many large and exceptionaly viscious dogs is, wellll, prety much off the chart from the vast majority of people, and more so now that having dogs around is more uncommon. Sharks, thats simple, humans are now the largest supply of meat to have ever existed on this planet.And that makes us an ecological niche, a food supply to be exploited.Given the vast number of humans who are dieing while on the ocean, due to refugees trying to escape, and the untold numbers of undocumented people living and dieing in costal cityies, lots of aquatic creatures eat humans, every day, most everywhere. The same will be true in continental mountain ranges, where scavengers are just doing there thing. Add in the expansion of humans, into what were wilderness habitats, ocean or land, and lo!, people are getting munched. The other side of humans bieng an ecological neiche, is the ecological law that is universaly observable, that states: all nieche's will be filled. And so evolution is turning its slow, ponderous gaze, our way.That we are outraged, and wish to destroy any possible predetory attack, will likely end up desroying whole ecosytems, with the resulting chaous proving to be much more lethal in the long run.

It's the same with bears. Once they realize humans are easy prey, they predate on them over and over... It's why bears are typically killed if they ever actually attack, even if the attack doesn't result in a fatality.

check

Man-Eaters of Kumaon

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-Eaters_of_Kumaon

Jim Corbett

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Corbett

for related stuff.

read the book as a teenager.

I read this book as a teen too! I picked it up at a garage sale after seeing the cool cover. I didn't expect it to be so readable. This is some classic Jack London-style adventure writing.

Yes, I had read London's Call of the Wild, as a kid. Good one too.

So like Jaws great white.

"Offenders" turning animals into human criminals.

It's not as if we're holding them to a higher standard than the one we use for ourselves. If you bit off and ate someone's leg you'd be a criminal too.

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