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Comment by seberino | Hacker News Reader

I think I see what you mean. I suppose it is kinda like an opaque binary, nevertheless, you can use it freely since all is under the MIT license right?

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Yes even for commercial purposes which is great, but the point of and reason why "open source" became popular is that you can modify the underlying source code of the binary which you can then recompile with your modifications included (as well as selling/publishing your modifications). You can't do that with deepseek or most other LLMs that claim to be open source. The point isn't that this makes it bad, the point is we shouldn't call it open source because we shouldn't loose focus on the goal of a truly open source (or free software) LLM on the same level than chatgpt/o1.

You can modify the weights which is exactly what they do when training initially. You do not even need to do it in exactly the same fashion. You could change things such as the optimizer and it would still work. So in my opinion it is nothing like an opaque binary. It's just data.

We have the weights and the code for inference, in the analogy this is an executable binary. We are missing the code and data for training, that's the "source code".

> that's the "source code"

Then it’s never distributable and any definition of open source requiring it to be is DOA. It’s interesting, as an argument against copyright. But that academic.

it's not academic. Why can't ChatGPT tell me how to make meth? why doesn't deepseek want to talk about tiananmen square? what other things has the model been molested into how it should be? without the full source, we don't know

While I appreciate the argument that the term "open source" is problematic in the context of AI models, I think saying the training data is the "source code" is even worse, because it broadens the definition to be almost meaningless. We never considered data to be source code and realistically for 99.9999% of users the training data is not the preferred way of modifying the model, just because the don't have millions of $ to retrain the full model, they likely don't even have the HDD space to save the training data.

Also I would say arguing that the model weights are just the "binary" is disingenuous, because nobody wants releases that only contain the training data and scripts to train and not the model weights (which would be perfectly fine for open source software if we argue that the weights are just the binaries), because they would be useless to almost everyone, because they don't have the resources to train the model.

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