All the nightmare scenarios and long-term side effects people speculated about never happened and more and more doses of the vaccine have been taken safely.
Do you have any long studies you can point to? Let’s go very short. 5 years or more?
The “The Science” crowd is so perplexing. You can’t believe in the upside in just faith. That’s exactly what you’re pretending not to do.
Obviously this is not a good faith question.
And yes, we may find out that the vaccines are, over a long period of time, not perfectly safe. But we do have enough data to know they aren't super risky (at least for the vast majority), because big effects would be easy to see, and we do know that COVID is very risky. Classic economic thinking question: "compared to what?"
There weren't a lot of people trying to model that risk, but of the ones who were the vaccine looked pretty compelling as a better bet for the whole of the peak pandemic. And maybe it turns out that 15 years out from the vaccine everyone suddenly dies! But the expected value there is highly unlikely.
E.g. it almost certainly wasn't for kids at any point. For people who'd already had it and recovered, it probably wasn't.
For folks over 65 with comorbidities and no previous exposure, it was probably a solid win to get it.
Would it be a good idea for everyone to go out and get one today?
I'm still waiting to become magnetic! That and I want to shed spike proteins like a Pokemon.
Moderna was on the verge of bankruptcy because not one in the company’s history did one of their or any other mRNA trial make it past trials. Not a single one to pass phase 3 trials, before COVID.
Go ahead. Fact check me.
“So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.”
People are not doing science in lieu of faith. They are putting action to their beliefs and trying to improve the shared human condition.
Water wells do not build themselves.
They now go to the top heart hospital in the world.
The doctors there say that while nothing can be proven for certain - obviously - the timing of their booster and the onset of their heart symptoms and the fact that there was no indication they had Covid at the time all point to the high probability it was the vaccine.
And they’ve seen this in other patients.
The scary thing is that this person had symptoms of heart failure for months before going to the ER and if they hadn’t, would have probably just died in their sleep long after getting the shot and it would have been a mystery, chalked up to bad luck and age.
Ironically, their current status with heart failure puts them in a high risk group and the recommendation is that they keep getting Covid boosters. The logic here is that the chances of getting another bad reaction from the vaccine is overruled by the chances they’d die from severe Covid.
It’s not as cut and dry as people on either side of this debate want to make it.
But this is a case of a person with no positive Covid tests or symptoms suddenly developing heart failure mere days after getting the booster.
There is this absurd idea that unlike every other vaccine, the Covid vaccines have absolutely no harmful side effects for anyone, ever.
The other side is saying that there’s this silent epidemic of terrible side effects hitting a ton of people, but it’s all anecdotal.
You say “anything is possible” like having heart failure due to other causes is some absurdly rare thing. It happens. The odds of this happening by coincidence are not that low.
If there are a ton of people getting heart failure from Covid vaccines, it should show up in the data. Has it?
Cardiovascular deaths have increased since Covid. Makes sense, because Covid causes heart damage. The vaccine also produces the thing that causes the heart damage - the spike protein - so there's at least a mechanism at play for the vaccine to cause similar looking damage.
And while mRNA vaccines have been tested for decades, the Covid vaccine was only "tested" during the pandemic because we created it on the spot. At this point over 70% of the US population has had both Covid and the vaccine. So if someone drops dead from viral heart disease, there's no way to know if it was from one or the other. We don't have pre-pandemic trials of this vaccine to compare to.
> You say “anything is possible” like having heart failure due to other causes is some absurdly rare thing.
Viral heart damage is rare.
Additionally, in my personal case, the symptoms of heart damage were present for nearly two months before a diagnosis. Early concerns about the vaccine were dismissed by pointing out that side effects from vaccines present very soon - hours, days - after administering. But it's entirely possible to get viral heart damage, not notice it, and chug along for quite a while before it kills you, if it ever does.
All I'm saying is that there seems to be a clear mechanism for the vaccine to cause heart damage, and that I'm not convinced that we can even really know the true rate of damage caused by the vaccine because most people have both been infected with Covid and received the vaccine.
I'm not making any claims about the magnitude, but I don't think it's anything crazy like I dunno, that half of everyone gets heart damage from the shot. But I wouldn't be surprised if it's just high enough that it changes the calculus for people who aren't in a high risk group.
I want to be clear that I think mRNA vaccines are revolutionary and a good thing.
But it also seems like there's more room for catastrophic error because you're no longer just injecting a static dose of dead material. I'm sure we'll also see multiple versions of future vaccines tailored to genetic variations in the population, things like that. For example, maybe some people produce way more spike protein than others from the shot? Maybe that's a small group so it doesn't present in routine testing?
It just seems like we're in the early stages of being able to administer these things as safely as we're used to. Maybe we got lucky with this one. Who knows.
(Some of my questions might have answers and I'm just not aware of them.)
My shoe was loose before my booster and became untied after I got my booster.
There is a high probability my shoe being untied was caused by the booster.
What I'm saying is:
There were no signs of viral heart damage before the booster, and then there were signs of viral heart damage immediately after getting the booster.
People in this thread don't seem to know what viral heart damage is and how it differs from heart damage caused over time by unhealthy habits. It's a one time burst of damage, unlike a chronic and progressive heart condition caused by high cholesterol, etc. It's easy to identify.
If there is damage from the vaccine, it makes sense that it would look like viral heart damage because the mechanism is the same.
The vaccine produces the spike protein.
The spike protein causes heart damage.
The vaccine spike proteins may not circulate as freely or in as large of numbers as from the virus in most cases.
The spike protein is part of the virus. The spike protein is the part of the virus that fuses the virus membrane to a cell membrane. The spike protein may cause heart damage via inflammation.