FEMA May Be Eliminated | Hacker News Reader

FEMA May Be Eliminated

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Awesome! If California residents weren't paying for all the hurricanes in the deep red South and tornadoes in the deep red plains states, then they'd have plenty of money to take care of themselves.

Does this guy ever think through anything before opening his mouth? Is he even capable of thinking?

> Does this guy ever think through anything before opening his mouth? Is he even capable of thinking?

None of this behavior is new; the American people have been fully aware of this and a voting majority decided that he was the most qualified person for the job.

Dismal Trump did not get a majority of voters. He received 49.8% of the vote.

> a voting majority decided that he was the most qualified person for the job.

There's your mistake: the technocratic assumption that elections are job interviews selecting for the "most qualified" candidate.

That's one part, but not the only part. This thought experiment should make it clear: You're voting in an important election. One candidate is an incompetent and unqualified clown, the other is a highly competent and qualified Nazi. You hate Nazis. Who do you vote for?

If you're arguing that voters choose a person who is less qualified, can you explain how Harris is a Nazi?

> If you're arguing that voters choose a person who is less qualified, can you explain how Harris is a Nazi?

Why? Harris isn't a Nazi. The hypothetical was exaggerated to emphasize a specific point. Don't take it too literally or try to map it directly to current events.

That was obviously sarcasm and ironically you took it literally.

I don't know enough about how FEMA works, but I'm assuming it operates at a federal level?

Could eliminating it force states to strengthen their own disaster relief programs?

If that's the case, some potential benefits of this might be that states get more efficient with their overall budget (in order to support disaster relief initiatives). And maybe spurs more innovation in disaster relief tech/processes.

Yes, FEMA is federal. If eliminating FEMA lowers federal taxes states could increase their state taxes to compensate and each have their own emergency management agencies. But generally it seems like having 50+ emergency management agencies is less efficient than having 1.

I'd assume states with tighter budgets and less of a tax base will be unable to replicate FEMA's resources, while more populous and wealthy states will be able to work around it.

My questions are if this would have any repurcussions on EMAC membership and if it would increase politicization of aid between states. We've seen this with a number of conservative-leaning states pulling out of ERIC over flimsy political reasons.

BINGO! Poor, rural states don't have the manpower resources or monetary resources to take care of the aftermath of disasters. Let me put it this way, North Carolina wasn't waiting on FEMA in order to start taking care of their disaster.

Red states will still get government assistance after disasters. Just watch.

Never forget Super Storm Sandy

Does California take any federal money? Do any of those plains states provide food to California. I don't think you would like this game as much as you think.

Does California get its food for free from the plains states? No? Well then, you can sit down and STFU. BTW, over half of the produce in US grocery stores comes from California. Also, over 90% of the goods coming into the US from East Asia comes through California ports. No California, no Walmart.

How do you like them apples?

Yeah…that must be the problem. They just don’t have enough money for themselves because of all the red states. Of course what little money California does have is mismanaged to hell by its state and local governments, but that will obvious not happen if there is a lot more money available.

> Florida, Louisiana and Texas residents have received the lion's share of FEMA direct assistance since 2015, per newly gathered data.

https://www.axios.com/2024/10/08/fema-direct-payments-state-...

Would be slightly more informative as per-capita numbers since Texas and Florida are #2 and #3 most populous states.

This is splitting hairs. These are vocally low/anti regulation and tax states hostile to even the belief in climate change when scoped to state reps [1] [2]. Let them financially support themselves and their disaster risk costs. They voted for this (both at federal and state levels). If they would like federal support for their high risk geography [3] [4] [5], they should consider voting for an administration that will provide such policy and support and believes in the science.

California is the world's fifth largest economy. They will be fine.

[1] https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/02/texas-environment-cl...

[2] https://www.npr.org/2024/05/17/1252012825/florida-gov-desant...

[3] https://www.axios.com/2023/09/27/insurance-rates-climate-cha...

[4] https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/McKinsey/Business%20Functio...

[5] https://www.newsweek.com/map-reveals-scale-florida-property-...

Gotcha. So your answer is to break up the republic because you don’t like some of the region’s politics.

These states and many of their citizens have been murmuring about a "cold civil war" and "peaceable secession" for decades, and a few have been flirting with secession since the actual civil war ended. They don't want to be a part of the US - or more accurately they consider only themselves to be the US, proper, and reject the authority of the Federal government as illegitimate, oppressive, and run according to cultural values which they despise.

So yeah, maybe it's better to let them go than suffer having them dragging the rest of the country down with them.

…or maybe they can just vote for the change they would like at the federal level like they just did.

Funny how that works in a republic like ours. If their direction doesn’t pan out, you have opportunities in 2026 and 2028 to right the ship. Of course that would mean that the democrats will actually have to provide a leader to two that can effectively communicate, motivate, and lead.

A republic doesn't work when half of the people simply vote to burn it down every four years to spite the other half. You can't just "right the ship" to correct policies this destructive. This isn't simple politics as usual.

You are making an assumption that only half the country votes to “burn it down” and that whatever side you are on is the correct one that should be preserved.

It’s possible that both sides seek to destroy the policies of the other and maybe, just maybe, neither side truly has a monopoly on what is right and correct.

All I hear as an independent political thinker is two sides whining that the other is dogmatic.

You're making the common "centrist" assumption that all sides are equal and all opinions derive from dogmatism and hypocrisy, yet somehow your own comments here tend only to criticize one side while justifying the other. I don't think you're as independent as you claim.

Interesting…I literally criticized both sides equally in the comment to which you just replied.

And for what it’s worth, I am pragmatic, not a centrist, which means that sometimes I might have an unbalanced view according to folks that believe “if you are not always A you must be B”

You didn't actually criticize either, you just implied both sides had the same motives, goals and methods, and that both sides were whining dogmatists. There is a difference between the two.

Also no one has claimed "if you are not always A you must be B," here. Again, you're just resorting to platitudes and stereotypes, no actual criticism or analysis. You haven't actually refuted any arguments with anything but blithe dismissals.

Suggesting that the two sides have the same motive, goal, and methods is a criticism. Suggesting that they are both full of whining dogmatists is a criticism.

Here is your argument, since apparently you didn’t get it from the much more brief sarcasm that started this little chain: “it’s shortsighted and frankly ignorant to suggest that destroying the most powerful country ever to exist via secession is a reasonable idea just because someone is butthurt that their ‘side’ didn’t win an election this time around and we had some hurricanes and fires this year that required significant federal disaster assistance”

By the way, my argument doesn’t change if it’s republicans talking secession or if the democrats are doing it. It’s a stupid idea.

My answer is to let people who want to hurt themselves politically and economically proceed after we have collectively attempted to prevent these outcomes. If they get their vote till death, and they don't want to change their vote to anything productive, there is no other choice (as mental models are rigid and tribalism pressures are strong). Good luck to them, effort is better spent on people who actually care and investment where it is valued.

> …or maybe they can just vote for the change they would like at the federal level like they just did.

This is the change they voted for. If it is harmful to them, that was their choice. As Jamie Dimon said, "Get over it." Vote better next time? If the forest votes for the axe after everyone told them not to, I have no compassion when the axe starts chopping.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Woodcutter_and_the_Trees

https://bsky.app/profile/briantylercohen.bsky.social/post/3l...

> after we have collectively attempted to prevent these outcomes

Who is “we” and what did “we” do to prevent “what” outcome?

Seems to me if you can answer that question you might have a clue why the forest might chose the axe.

It sounds like, from your comments, that you believe understanding these people is going to enable change. In my opinion, I believe this is unlikely when you cannot appeal to irrational voters (who google "who pays tariffs" after their vote and the election concludes, who don't want Obamacare but love their ACA insurance, who want immigrants deported but don't understand that directly correlates to inflation [wage pressure and labor supply]). So why are we going to waste time trying to pander and appeal to them? What will that change? Protect vulnerable people worth protecting, good luck to the rest while we wait for a bunch of folks to age out (~2M/year 55+ voting cohort).

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/12/10-facts-...

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/11/13/what-trum...

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-polit...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/11/there-are-a-...

You hope the forest accepts advice against the axe, but it doesn’t. The answer isn’t “let those dumb trees die off”. The answer should be “what about our message of peril is so easy to ignore” or “why don’t these trees respect our authority to advise them about the danger of the axes”.

You will always have an issue if you can’t communicate obvious peril in a way that is accepted or if you lack the respect and authority that prevents your advice being heard and accepted. That’s the problem, not the forest and trees.

While I am normally in team "hey scale it by capita", this case makes me hesitate. (Would we also need to factor in statewide cost-of-living values?)

If $X is exported from residents of my state out to support another state, that's the same local impact regardless of how populous the destination is or how finely that $X gets split after it arrives.

In any case, I think it's enough to support the idea that there's a tension (if not contradiction) where the states that receive the most absolute benefit are also the ones electing politicians who pretend the exact opposite.

I'm not taking a political stance here, because that's not the purpose of this forum. But from an efficiency perspective, I believe the question is whether a federal "agency" (and its associated bureaucracy) is necessary to deal with local emergencies, not whether federal "financial aid" may be necessary to help support state and local governments. Most if not all states have their own emergency management programs.

And the answer to that question "obviously no".

Stronger apart, economy of small scale. These aren't the phrases.

From the article, it doesn't sound like FEMA will be eliminated, just incredibly politicized. So... yay?

> Trump has criticized former President Joe Biden for his administration’s response to Hurricane Helene in North Carolina. As he left the White House on Friday morning, he told reporters that “it’s been a horrible thing the way that’s been allowed to fester” since the storm hit in September, and “we’re going to get it fixed up.”

> “I’d rather see the states take care of their own problems,” he told Hannity, adding that “FEMA is getting in the way of everything.”

So to be clear, when it happened during the previous administration, it was the administration's fault. When it's his administration, it is the agency's fault and also not his responsibility. And it sounds like the president changes his tune based on whether the disaster was in a red state or a blue state.

Everything that has been said so far is so in conflict with itself so it's hard to guess what a policy change would even be. So my guess would be nothing happens and we don't hear about it anymore as soon as wildfires are out of the news cycle.

Developers: America has been taken over by a bad, pointy haired boss. Suggestions on how to deal with him? Tell him what he wants to hear and continue doing what's needed? Ignore his insane announcements, just come in for work as usual and do the necessary things? Hope that he is ousted or removed somehow? Indeed.

Leave and start new startup? Solely bootstrapped.

If only. Maybe spin off a division or two...

I'm not a fan of the "chaos agent" style of politics, but sometimes it does bring up topics that would be taboo to talk about otherwise.

Chat, is it good actually to let the gulf coast degrade into a third-world shithole?

Was it good to encourage people to settle in flood plains? LBJ has some explaining to do...

Right? We can ill afford for the Gulf Of America to be a third-world shithole. Doesn't look good for our brand.

This seems a relevant time to remember that 90's-era conspiracy mythology saw FEMA as the big boogeyman agency whose emergency powers were essential to an authoritarian seizure of the nation.

Along with the ATF and IRS (for other reasons), its looming and certain villiany rallied sovereign citizen and militia types to organize and arm themselves.

Assuming some of those people now have more political influence than they have had in the past, it seems like the legacy of that mythos could be part of what's at play here.

I don't remember anyone bringing up the "FEMA death camps" during COVID but it wouldn't surprise me if it made a resurgence.

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