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I have ADHD, and I am certain that most of the reduced life expectancy is from chronic stress- a well established killer. With ADHD you frequently don’t have the executive control to do what you decided to do, and needs to get done. This leads to constantly being terrified of failing at everything, and letting everyone in your life down. Often calling yourself (and being called by others) lazy, unreliable, disorganized, etc. even when you care deeply and are doing everything you can to succeed.

It would be nice to figure out what can be done about this. I’ve found I usually have dangerously high blood pressure, but a few minutes of slow exhale breathing exercises and a short walk brings it down to normal. Which I usually feel I am too stressed and busy to do.

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This is so hard to explain, especially to people dear to you. Like, how many times can you say I‘m sorry, I didn’t ignore your messages on purpose, I just… couldn’t before they grow tired of it? And at the same time you notice how you desperately long for the contact, but the guilt and shame for letting people wait indefinitely makes it ever harder to actually reach out. It’s a devious cycle, and constant source of ever-increasing stress.

Don’t have energy cause I fucked things up, fuck things up because I don’t have energy.

I know, there is nothing I hate more than letting people down and yet end up doing so multiple times per day- and it’s demoralizing. I have so many systems, reminders, etc. that do help a lot but not enough.

Substance abuse, suicide, and impulsive behavior are also likely contributors[1]. There are multiple studies that have found medication is associated with a significant reductions in unnatural deaths [2][3].

It really is underappreciated IMO that ADHD medications are some of the most effective pharmacological interventions in all of psychiatry. There are risks and concerns but by and large they are figuratively and literally life-saving.

[1] https://www.adhdevidence.org/evidence#premature-death

[2] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10936112/

[3] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10901868/

I guess it depends on the treatment, but amphetamine based adhd treatment was for me, the fucking devil. It absolutely ruined my life for the 8 years I was on it. Fucked my health up, fucked my personality up, fucked my interpersonal relationships up, etc. But hey I was slightly better at focusing at work. Kinda. When I wasnt habitually dopamine chasing by playing video games or jerking off

> I guess it depends on the treatment, but amphetamine based adhd treatment was for me, the fucking devil.

Fortunately, we now have options other than amphetamines, but yes, in general, like most diseases, ADHD is categorized by symptoms, not really causes, and so lots of treatments that work wonderfully for some people with ADHD are literally the worst thing for other people with ADHD.

What are the new options? Thank you.

So, on the medication side, there are NRIs (norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor) and alpha-2A agonists. The latter in particular work kind of the opposite of stimulants. A psychiatrists described the difference to me with the metaphor of a sound system where you're having trouble listening to the music. The stimulants are amplifiers that push up the volume. The other approach is a better preamp that does a better job reducing the noise. Depending on the nature of your problem, one is going to help a lot, and the other is going to be useless at best, but could well make the problem worse.

I presume you're aware of the other non-pharmaceutical interventions, like CBT. Generally they don't have as high a success rate, but that doesn't mean that they aren't be the right solution for you.

I found Modafinil really helped. Had to persuade my consultant to prescribe it 'off-label', it's approved for narcolepsy.

fwiw, I'm pretty sure you can get mopafinil and adrafinil (or at least one of the two) online grey-market pretty easily

This is how I found out I had both ADHD and bipolar.

what do you mean by that

Type one or two? That's how I was misdiagnosed as bipolar-II. I have unipolar depression, but the high dosage of amphetamines I was on had me tweaking apparently. Once my dosage was drastically reduced, I had no issues other than normal depression ever again.

You would think taking me off the medication/reducing the dosage would have been the first step in diagnosing such a condition, but we're talking about the two most pseudoscientific fields of science/medicine, so perhaps I was wrong to trust them.

Adderall was a nightmare for me as well, but methylphenidate (ritalin) seems to have no adverse effects I can notice at all. It helps, but seemingly only with other regular life things and not really with work. Ironically, I am much better at paying attention while doing hobbies and housework but don’t find it easier to start work.

Did you find something that worked because you have literally just described what I have been struggling with all these years. Everything was great in the beginning, but that slowly started to fade away as time progressed, and like you said, the demons started to come out.

I just emailed my doctor and told him to never prescribe to me again because I'm an addict and can't control myself around amphetamines. So now I am off everything totally.

At first I self medicated with weed and booze a lot, but after a few months I quit everything. I don't even consume caffeine anymore (found out all that adderall gave me a fucking anuerysm in my aorta at the ripe old age of 27, so I quit nicotine and caffeine as soon as I got the news)

Anyways nowadays I just power through the ADHD. I feel like I kinda suck at my job but still getting good performance reviews so, not that bad I guess.

I would recommend focusing as hard as possible on building habits that you can rely on. I started working out doing calisthenics 3 days a week and it is kinda the cornerstone of my life at the moment. it anchors everything I do pretty much.

I admire your conviction.

Honestly, I probably should do something similar, but I am too afraid to do it. Like you said prior, the meds helped you focus a little at work, and to me, that is one of the few benefits I get too. However, it's enough that I am probably willing to destroy my body over it. Is it worth it? Probably not, but I am not sure what other choices I have.

I think one of the sinister and most beneficial aspects of medication is something I liken to time-traveling. I work in a cubicle farm as a dev. No windows, artificial light, and tons of noise all around. Unmedicated me would probably be fired or would just walk out within a day or two. However, this is where the time-traveling helps me. Just pop the pills, and time seems to evaporate before my very eyes. Hours can feel like minutes, and the next thing I know the day is over (long bouts of hyperfocus in other words).

Am I productive during these times? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. But it doesn't matter. It makes the boring life I have confined myself to go by quicker.

> I self medicated with weed and booze a lot

Opposite order for me, and I didn't start them until after being medicated, ironically. I try to drink less now, and have been alright at that, but I think weed is one of the only things keeping me going right now. It allows me to be calm and present and not feel like I have to be constantly doing something. I can actually watch an entire TV from start to finish! It's not without its negatives, for sure, but nothing in life is.

> I would recommend focusing as hard as possible on building habits that you can rely on

On and off meds, I have always struggled with this. I apparently have no issues developing bad habits, but I am incapable of developing good habits. The second something derails my habits, then it takes an insurmountable amount of effort and motivation to start back up again. Have you found anything to combat this?

Yes will power and age.

But also the book atomic habits helped me a lot

I hardly post here but I just wanted to say that this is also my experience exactly. Addies were a godsend at first, I was able to succeed at school and dedicated hobbies for the first time in my goddamn life, but after the honeymoon phase (6-8 months) I was struggling with a really bizarre addiction to porn and media. Granted the effects on my grades were still present but it felt like a whole house of cards just waiting to fall apart. It's terrifying because at that point you don't want to trade the small amount of executive control you've gained for anything so experimenting with other medication feels risky. I envy that you were able to go cold turkey off it and still find success in your life, I truly don't feel like I can succeed without the meds but I hate the demon that they've awakened in me.

Dude its legitimately the best decision ive ever made in my life. I went from being a complete loner shut in weirdo to having a very fulfilling life within 2 years. In fact I just got engaged. If you feel like amphetamines are fucking you up, you gotta just send it and get off em

From the first article: "But people with ADHD had twice the rate of suicide, twice the rate of death by homicide, and a 30 % greater rate of death from unintentional injury"

I get the suicide, but the higher homicide rate is surprising. Any thoughts on why someone with ADHD has a higher chance of being murdered?

ETA: I never considered ADHD people as risk takers (definitely not me) but apparently they are: https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/features/adhd-dangerous-risky...

>Any thoughts on why someone with ADHD has a higher chance of being murdered?

Higher risk tolerance and illegal substance abuse, which then result in getting mixed up with drug dealers (and the like) where most people "nope" out of situations before the trouble begins?

In general, people with ADHD do not conform to society's expectations of how a human brain should work. That means they're more likely to be marginalized & targeted, and likely have fewer resources at their disposal if they are at risk; so they are both more likely to become a homicide target and have less protection if they do. They're also more likely to engage in risk taking behaviour, much of which could increase one's risk of being a victim of a homicide.

I feel like I respond to conflict in ways that are extremely unexpected by other people. I tend to act impulsively on principle without thinking about the risks- and will stand up to a bully or criminal when I should not have, even if the issue isn’t important, and they have the advantage. I once stared at person pointing a loaded gun in the eye and lectured them on their behavior, completely ignoring the gun. I don’t know if that is a symptom of ADHD or not but it seems dangerous, and I’ve been lucky so far- the other people have always backed down when I stood up like this.

> I once stared at person pointing a loaded gun in the eye and lectured them on their behavior, completely ignoring the gun.

Yes. I was mugged at gunpoint, and my initial reaction was to talk about the game theory of the whole situation. Somewhere, somehow, I was able to force down that thought by realizing that they wouldn't be in that situation in the first place if game theory had any space in their thinking, so all I would be doing was increasing my chances of getting killed.

I almost did it anyway.

Important context: I'm not brave at all; bravery did not enter the picture in that whole interaction. It was just what I instinctively felt like doing.

...and yes, impulsiveness, risk taking behaviour are standard ADHD symptoms, and ADHD often affects how you respond to conflict.

Agreed- also in my case it’s not bravery. Bravery is when you’re scared but do it anyways because it’s necessary- not being scared when you should be is a bad thing and isn’t related to bravery.

Gang violence, fights, and interpersonal conflict.

I want to be surprised if there was a correlation with murder as well as homicide

> ETA: I never considered ADHD people as risk takers (definitely not me) but apparently they are:

Keep in mind there are officially three types of ADHD: Predominantly Inattentive, Predominantly Hyperactive, and Combined. The risk-taking is much more associated with the second and third types than the first.

https://www.goodrx.com/conditions/adhd/3-adhd-types-differen...

Yeah, I'm in the Predominantly Inattentive category.

impulse control plays a role

If you have poor impulse control then you are more likely to be involved in crime as well as having intense, chaotic personal relationships. Both are correlated with homicide.

One could argue that substance abuse, suicide, and impulsive behaviour (and these were all specifically called out in the study) are a reaction to stress. I would certainly say they are a reflection of lack of access to health care and support systems (e.g. a large portion of ADHD substance abuse is self-medicating).

I think it would be interesting to see a follow up study comparing the life expectancy of ADHD folks who are on vs. not on ADHD medications. If nothing else, I would expect it could help with advocacy for better access to them.

> ADHD medications are some of the most effective pharmacological interventions in all of psychiatry.

To me, this says more about how ineffective most psychiatric treatments rather than how effective ADHD treatments are.

So, [2] only concludes a reduction in a two-year long mortality rate, which to be frankly honest, is still somewhat within the "honeymoon" phase of medication.

[3] does not state a specific duration of follow-up for participants, so I am going to assume the durations are quite variable.

I am not against medication -- quite the opposite -- but I am highly skeptical of many of the claims extrapolated research. The medications do seem to be highly efficacious in the short-term. But I have yet to see any compelling evidence that long-term benefits are consistent with short-term benefits. My personal experience, as worthless as they may be, do not reflect this, and I am apparently not alone in this regard:

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2009/short-term-i...

People with ADHD are involved in more car crashes:

https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/news/research-shows-st...

They are also at higher risk for any type of unintentional injury:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10107297/

I believe that people with ADHD are over-represented in first-responder type careers, which also carries more risk:

https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/fitness-mental-health-well...

And are know to engage in more risky behavior in general:

https://neurolaunch.com/no-sense-of-danger-adhd/

And substance abuse among those with ADHD is much higher than the general population:

https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/adhd-and-substance-abuse-is-t...

I am somewhat skeptical of the car crash research. Being "involved" in a car accident does not paint a clear enough picture. I think it would be more interesting to see that data on whether people with ADHD are more likely to be found at fault in car accidents.

With cellphones and other distractions now, I feel like the data would be even harder to parse through. Is a person with ADHD more likely than the average person to text while driving? I do not think that would be an incorrect assumption, but I would like to see data suggesting this.

Fault is a tricky term in this context.

Humans face a number of challenges when driving. Cars, roads, laws, traffic systems, etc. have all evolved to help them meet those challenges, but it is all shaped by our expectations of the humans. When a human doesn't perform to those expectations, we say it is their fault. When an accident occurs despite them meeting those expectations, it's not their fault.

But folks with ADHD have brains that don't match society's expectations; cars, roads, laws, traffic systems, etc. have not evolved to help them. Their brains are effectively a chaos factor for all the safeguards we have in place... Even their advantages can be disadvantages because everything was designed to help someone who didn't have them.

Even if an accident wasn't their fault, I think it's quite credible that people with ADHD might just be more likely to be in situations where there is a higher risk of an accident... and I'd expect it'd be more common for accidents to be their "fault", because again, how we determine fault is defined by expectations they conform to.

> Fault is a tricky term in this context.

I was talking more from a legal perspective -- where a party's actions or negligence is the direct cause or a significant contributing factor to an accident.

> But folks with ADHD have brains that don't match society's expectations

I live it every day.

> Even their advantages

There are no advantages. I have yet to see something that a person with ADHD can do that a person without ADHD cannot do that can be solely attributed to ADHD and no other factors.

So, I am going to cut straight to the heart of this argument. Do you believe in free will or not? I do not. At least not in a complete sense of the idea; however, I am not sure society can function without some level of belief in free will.

If a person with ADHD kills another person in a vehicular accident, should they be automatically free of punishment because it's not their fault? If not, then that is perhaps even more morbid. It's like saying, "We know it's not your fault, but here is some punishment anyway."

As for evolution, countless variants of countless species on this planet have been lost with the sands of time due to natural selection. Their inability to adapt to the environment around them was not their fault, but as evolution shows us -- too bad. And honestly, that mirrors my experiences with life with ADHD. It sucks, it's not fair, but too bad. The universe owes no one anything.

> There are no advantages. I have yet to see something that a person with ADHD can do that a person without ADHD cannot do that can be solely attributed to ADHD and no other factors.

Oh, there are lots of benefits. ADHD people tend to be able to react quicker & think more clearly during emergencies. They tend to be better able to find connections between disparate ideas. That's just a couple. For obvious reasons, the disadvantages tend to overshadow the advantages, but everything is a trade-off. It's not 100% negative. A lot of learning to live with ADHD is learning to create contexts that play to your strengths and mitigate your weaknesses. It's harder to create those contexts than if your mind more adequately meets society's expectations, but it can be done.

> If a person with ADHD kills another person in a vehicular accident, should they be automatically free of punishment because it's not their fault?

Okay, that is really, really not where I was going with this.

> Their inability to adapt to the environment around them was not their fault, but as evolution shows us -- too bad.

Ah, but we've reached a point where predominantly we adapt our environment to us rather than adapt to our environment. Those roads these cars drive on didn't come from nature.

> The universe owes no one anything.

I think I've completely failed to communicate my point to you. I don't know how to correct it beyond saying this is not at all what I was trying to say.

Here's a starting spot, maybe especially the paper in footnote 4.

https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-driving-risks-research-safe...

Thank you for sharing this. This is what I have been looking for.

Tangental but related, but I think I read somewhere on YN that Canada was proposing a law that would legally require people with ADHD to be medicated if they wanted to obtain a driver's license. Not sure what, if anything, ever became of that idea, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Yep. Immense stress can also be a learned proactive tactic. You build up stress via procrastination until the level is high enough to overcome any disfunction.

I called it anxiety based development when I was in dev roles. Worked okay up until the physical symptoms forced me to find alternatives. The alternative for me is I no longer write code for a living.

What do you do now, and is it better?

I moved from development to architecture and that helped for a few years. New focus different things to learn. Then the same things started happening there. I moved more into management and was good there for a bit and then same patterns emerged. Jumped to consulting and it’s the same story. Now am exploring more “leadership” style roles.

I realize I personally do a LOT better when I’m actively learning and doing new things in a job. If it’s something I know I can do and have done it many times it’s like my mind refuses to engage eventually unless the anxiety overrides it.

It’s getting more difficult though. Especially with consulting giving me insights into how dozens of very large technology orgs are run. The problems are almost always the same and it’s rarely technical. I used to always enjoy starting at new companies. But more and more it’s just the exact same patterns and even that is rarely engaging.

At some point I think I’ll have to leave tech altogether and explore something completely different. Just hope I can survive until the kids are out exploring on their own so I can take a break on the cash flow demands.

It's taken me most of a lifetime to figure out that this is kind of the opposite of the right way to deal with the problem. You're effectively fighting fire with fire, and the whole thing needs to not be a fight at all.

Which works really well until it just doesn't.

Stress is certainly a killer, but it's a facet of a broader factor.

Society has built up a lot of systems to support people, to protect us from our environment and ourselves, and they've been incredibly successful; average lifespans have increased dramatically... literally by decades.

For the most part, these systems are built in response to and designed around how "we" expect peoples' brains work. If your brain doesn't work those ways, many of those support systems are unnecessary, ineffective, or worse still: harmful. There's also no doubt a bunch of systems that could be designed & built that could to help support & protect people with challenges that are largely non-existent for people whose brains work as we expect.

That the combined consequence of this is less that a decade of life expectancy for people with ADHD is actually quite remarkable, but let's not kid ourselves: we could be doing so much better.

> we could be doing so much better

I do not see that happening in my life time. Modern society values none of the things that would help people with ADHD -- relaxed deadlines, less emphasis on productivity, valuing human lives over profits, etc.. Maybe someday in the future AI can take much of the burden off us, but till then, I only see things getting worse.

> Modern society values none of the things that would help people with ADHD

Yeah, I wouldn't expect that modern society is going to value things that would help people with ADHD. One might hope that modern society might value people with ADHD, at least enough to help them some. It's not like society's expectations of people don't change over time. They do.

That said, my statement that "we could be doing so much better" wasn't really a hopefully statement. It was more a statement of fact, and a recognition that society's expectations are killing a lot of people with ADHD.

Depression is a common co-morbidity also.

probably as a result of all the systemic issues surrounding ADHD.

It's much simpler and more biomechanical than that.

ADHD at its core is a dopamine disorder. Effort without dopamine is extremely difficult in anyone, and ADHD makes it tough for these dopamine mechanisms to get going. Once that dopamine effect does get going, you're off to the races. That's the ADHD Hyperfocus effect you see.

But when you add in the modern quick dopamine fixes we've surrounded ourselves with—media, social media, processed foods, pornography, etc.—you've built a situation where ADHD individuals are prioritizing those activities over productive ones. This leads to a downward spiral: less productive action means fewer opportunities for future productive actions.

Lock into that mode for weeks at a time and you've got both situationally-supported and biochemical depression.

> ADHD at its core is a dopamine disorder.

This is still merely hypothetical is it not? I have noticed people home in on dopamine, but no one ever mentions serotonin, glutamate, gaba, and all the other neurochemical systems.

I also thought the biochemical basis for depression has been completely thrown out, is that also not true?

Yeah, we don't understand nearly enough about the brain to have a very mechanistic view of ADHD. With so many different types on a spectrum, and sometimes symptoms being caused by things like physical trauma or infection, it is likely there are different possible mechanisms. However, it certainly appears like dopamine is highly involved, but noepinephrine also seems to be involved as well.

Medically, it is defined symptomatically, and not mechanistically.

It’s not that simple. The brain is a very complex system and once you get other components of your brain to a neurotypical baseline or even better ADHD is a gift.

Those regions being sensory motor cortex and prefrontal cortex. But simply its a system of networks and attention regulation.

Those networks can be trained and I have experienced it first hand by reversing engineering my own brain and training it beyond normal baseline. This training is called neurofeedback and it transformed my ADHD into a super power.

During my evaluation my ability to focus(was measured) was worse than the average ADHD person. Afterwards it was above even normal people.

I need don't even consider myself someone with ADHD and everything just seems to come together naturally. ( Deadlines, managing details, time management and planning- all prefrontal cortex) The networks in my brain have been training to switch normally, and hyper focusing is just focusing but on anything I really want.

It was the cure I’d been searching for my whole life and it actually worked.

Can you divulge more details about your neurofeedback training? What was it like, how long did it take, how did they measure the brain, what stimulus and which "punishment" for bad brain behavior was used?

Not necessarily true.

They did studies and it turns out the kind of ADHD abilities would’ve been useful back in our berry finding days. ADHDers would pick all the berries they could see and then go off to find another bush, not bothering to finish picking all the berries. The neurotypicals would follow along, picking the berries the ADHDers didn’t care about.

All this made berry gathering more efficient.

This is wild conjecture based on performance in a berry-picking game.

I completely agree with this. It's hard to not feel like a failure, you don't belong, low motivation, etc. when other people constantly reinforce this idea with both their words and their actions.

I think a lot of this fuels the substance abuse issues in ADHD as well. I have always spent too much time playing video games, doom scrolling, etc.. It's all just an escape. But I think many do not understand -- I, and perhaps many others, escape from this world because I do not belong.

Treatments for ADHD are cute and all, but nothing I have tried has really moved the needle much. At least not for long. There is always a reversion to the mean, and this condition always wins in the end.

Simplify your life, go cheap and use extra time to both reduce stress and spend less time in stressful situations.

I’m probably an undiagnosed ASD and that’s what I ended up doing and plan to take to more extreme level as life situation allows. Fancy stuff and „fitting in“ is not worth it.

I am starting to come to this same conclusion. What is the point in playing the game if you can't win? If I accomplish all my goals and fulfill my ambitions, then what? I can just be like Ozymandias?

It is interesting to see so many people wrestling with this question. I think it is a break through moment for a lot of people to realize that you get one life and get to spend it however you choose. There are no rules, only tradeoffs. You can be a beach bum in South America, or a hermit goat farmer.

The reward center of my brain is probably all kinds of jacked up, so perhaps people get something from these accomplishments that I do not. However, I agree with you. I have noticed this sentiment is leaking into even otherwise health individuals too -- mainly Gen Z and younger. I guess society is heading towards some massive existential crisis. If AI eventually meets the predictions that some people have, then perhaps the issue will only get worse too.

Im not sure I follow, but I think there is something about it related to either age or generation. It seems like a lot of people are going through life on autopilot without thinking about what they really want, questioning what makes them happy, and ending up very dissatisfied with the results.

I think there is something powerful about feeling like you chose the life you are living among the options available.

No worries, I know I am hard to follow.

Anyway, I think you are absolutely correct. Honestly, what you wrote is an apt description of me. I am in my early 30s, thus all I can truly write about is what I have experienced in my generation.

I feel like I was raised to treat life in an algorithmic sense. If one wants a good life, then as long as he or she follows the given path, then happiness awaits. You know -- be a good person, stay in school, don't do drugs, don't get in trouble, work hard, go to college, get a good job, find a partner and settle down, etc..

Any deviation from the plan was more or less a death sentence -- get in trouble? Congratulations, you threw your life away. Bad grades => no college => "put the fries in the bag."

Obviously, we were somewhat encouraged to follow our dreams. Want to be a rockstar or a professional athlete? Great, but make sure you still stick to the path because if/when your dream likely fails, then at least you have something to fall back on.

So, what did I do? I followed the path the best I could have at the time. What were my results? Well, I make more money the median household income in the US, still technically under six-figures, but I work in the public sector (gov), so it's not the best place for high compensation. What else do I have? Well, I have a romantic relationship with a longterm girlfriend that is kind in a rough patch that we will hopefully work through, I have virtually no friends, no hobbies, no goals, no ambitions, I take "medication" during the day and use cannabis at night to offset the medication's effects just so I am semi-functional enough to work a job that I have grown to hate with every fiber of my being.

So yeah, I did not think my life would end up this way. I suppose I theoretically have to powers to change it, but what do I change it to? I have no idea what I want, I do not know what will make me happy, and I am afraid of whatever changes I make will lead to the same dissatisfying results. So, I am basically just living my life one day at a time until I meet my end.

Does any of that make any sense?

there's no winning. have you seen the people who are supposedly "winning"?

What I said was merely an expression. In more literal terms, "Why work hard when hard work yields little to no results?" Basically, learned helplessness in a nutshell.

At face value, I think I could potentially accomplish meaningful things. I am not trying to change to the world, but I could be better at my craft, a better employee, be healthier, etc.. Sadly, the only thing truly stopping me is myself.

Believe me, I've been trying to change myself my entire life, and nothing has ever worked. Of course, many would say that I should just accept myself. However, it has always been difficult when others do not accept me.

> Simplify your life, go cheap and use extra time to both reduce stress and spend less time in stressful situations.

That was my dream too when I retired from computer programming 10 years ago. I got bored. I was good at programming and now no longer have anything challenging or interesting in my life. Really programming was the only thing I was good at. So now most of my day is either doing something I'm not really good at, or challenged by, or procrastinating to avoid doing something I'm not really good at or interested in. I haven't given up yet.

Why reture from programming?

Personally I don’t see programming itself stressful at all. In fact, it’s very relaxing. It is the human side of holding a job, or worse, working at office. Minimize human side, maximize programming and it’s a win in my books.

A lot of things changed in 28 years, including me, and I wasn't enjoying the job anymore. After a while, coding wasn't that interesting any more.

I fantasize about this a lot- I managed to have a successful career despite ADHD, but worry that the stress isn’t sustainable. I don’t desire money, recognition, or physical comfort and am happier hiking in the wilderness or at sea in a tiny boat than in a comfortable home or at a desk.

However, my work is important, interesting, and gives me a sense of purpose. I also have a family to support.

The best compromise I can come up with right now, is to live frugally so I can retire early or scale back hours as soon as my son is grown. He also has ADHD, so I am conscious of wanting to set an example for him as well, which includes taking care of myself and not destroying my health to desperately meet others impossible expectations of me.

IMO it’s better to optimise for today than retirement that may never come. I work on a relaxed software project probably taking a good hit on my salary. My days are relatively little stress. I’ve plenty of time to spend with my son.

If I end up working in this or similar projects till very late days - I’m fine. Even if I retired, I’d probably end up doing something similar to what I do now.

Just in case - I work from home. Never worked in a proper office in my 2 decades long career.

also, you're less likely than the general population to get hired and more likely to be fired if you do get a job.

Good luck getting any help if you live in one of the only countries that has healthcare tied to employment. It's easy to slip into a hole with almost no way out.

I wonder if chronic stress leads to a reduced life expectancy for ASD too?

I find that stress leads to this endless cycle of drinking at night to clam the brain (otherwise I spend half the night panicking and ruminating over every little thing), followed by energy drinks the next day to keep focused without taking proper medication. I ended up having to quit most of it when the toll on the body was too much after years and years.

There are other ways. Please get help if you can, you deserve it. We all deserve help in overcoming the obstacles we face.

I made the most progress once I got help in accepting and loving myself, thanking parts of me for fighting hard to take care of me and get where I am, and gently letting go of old patterns that don’t serve me anymore. A good therapist (hard to find) can help immensely

Wishing you the best.

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