At some point, you just have to be pragmatic and measure the questions you want the AI to be good at answering, rather than trying to measure intelligence in general.
In that sense, I see this as one more benchmark that collects questions that we want/expect AI to be good at, is not good at yet and have been underrepresented at previous benchmarks. That's obviously valuable, there's nothing "magical" about it. Although it is reasonable to be annoyed at the "Humanity's Last Exam" naming, of course they must have missed plenty of edge-cases like everyone else and it is very arrogant to claim it will be the "Last" one.
It's good at answering questions that its trained on, I would suggest general intelligence are things you didnt want/train the AI to be good at answering.
How about a middle school test in a language you don’t speak?
The actual challenge towards general intelligence is that LLMs struggle with certain types of questions even if you *do* train it on millions of examples of that type of question. Mostly questions that require complex logical reasoning, although consistent progress is being done in this direction.
> Well, LLMs are also remarkably good at generalizing. Look at the datasets, they don't literally train on every conceivable type of question the user might ask, the LLM can adapt just as you can.
Proof needed.I'm serious. We don't have the datasets. But we do know the size of the datasets. And the sizes suggest incredible amounts of information.
Take an estimate of 100 tokens ~= 75 words[0]. What is a trillion tokens? Well, that's 750bn words. There are approximately 450 words on a page[1]. So that's 1.66... bn pages! If we put that in 500 page books, that would come out to 3.33... million books!
Llama 3 has a pretraining size of 15T tokens[2] (this does not include training, so more info added later). So that comes to ~50m books. Then, keep in mind that this data is filtered and deduplicated. Even considering a high failure rate in deduplication, this an unimaginable amount of information.
[0] https://help.openai.com/en/articles/4936856-what-are-tokens-...
But yes I see what you mean, they are dumping practically the whole internet at it, it’s not unreasonable to think that it has memorized a massive proportion of common question types the user might come up with, such that minimal generalization is needed.
> that couldn’t have been in the training data
I'm curious, how do you know this? I'm not doubting, but is it falsifiable?I also am not going to claim that LLMs only perform recall. They fit functions in a continuous manner. Even if the data is discrete. So they can do more. The question is more about how much more.
Another important point is that out of distribution doesn't mean "not in training". This is sometimes conflated, but if it were true then that's a test set lol. OOD means not belonging to the same distribution. Though that's a bit complicated, especially when dealing with high dimensional data
The commenter below is right that the amount of data involved is ridiculously massive, so I don't think human intuition is well equipped to have a sense of how much these models have seen before.
> Are you good at answering questions you are not trained to answer?
Yes. Most schooling is designed around this.Pick a random math textbook. Any will do. Read a chapter. Then move to the homework problems. The typical fashion is that the first few problems are quite similar to the examples in the chapter. Often solvable by substitution and repetition. Middle problems generally require a bit of extrapolation. To connect concepts from previous chapters or courses in ways that likely were not explicitly discussed. This has many forms and frequently includes taking the abstract form to practical (i.e. a word problem). Challenge problems are those that require you to extrapolate the information into new domains. Requiring the connection of many ideas and having to filter information for what is useful and not.
> How about a middle school test in a language you don’t speak?
A language course often makes this explicitly clear. You are trained to learn the rules of the language. Conjugation is a good example. By learning the structure you can hear new words that you've never heard before and extract information about it even if not exactly. There's a reason you don't just learn vocabulary. It's also assumed that by learning vocabulary you'll naturally learn rules.Language is a great example in general. We constantly invent new words. It really is not uncommon for someone you know to be be talking to you and in that discussion drop a word they made up on the spot or just make a sound or a gesture. An entirely novel thing yet you will likely understand. Often this is zero-shot (sometimes it might just appear to be zero-shot but actually isn't)
(Someone made a cryptic crossword[1] whose clues and solutions were in the Bahasa Indonesia language, and it was solved by a couple of people who don't speak that language at all.)
[1] These are mostly a UK thing; the crosswords in US newspapers are generally of a different type. In a cryptic crossword, each word is given a clue that typically consists of a definition and some wordplay; there are a whole lot of conventions governing the wordplay. So e.g. the clue "Chooses to smash pots (4)" would lead to the answer OPTS; "chooses" is the definition, "smash pots" is the wordplay, wherein "smash" indicates that what follows should be anagrammed (smashed up).
Disclaimer #1: it took those people a lot more work than it would have taken them to solve an English-language cryptic crossword of similar difficulty, and they needed a bunch of external resources.
(Dis)claimer #2: one of those people was me.
Disclaimer #3: I do not claim that something needs to be able to do this sort of thing in order to be called intelligent. Plenty of intelligent people (including plenty of people more intelligent than me) would also be unable to do it.
Yes, because it is 1st person exclusively. If you expand a bit, consider "search efficiency". It's no longer just 1st person, it can be social. And it doesn't hide the search space. Intelligence is partially undefined because it doesn't specify the problem space, it is left blank. But "search efficiency" is more scientific and concrete.
Indeed, and yet people are obsessed with the it and the idea of measuring their own intelligence - I completely do not understand it. I am in an extremely high percentile, but I am a total moron in a lot of areas and if you met me would likely think so as well. It's a poor predictor for just about everything except how good a person is at recognizing patterns (I know there are many different kinds of tests, but inevitably, it feels like this) and how quickly they can reason. But people are obsessed with it (Go on quora and search "IQ", you probably won't half to though, since half the questions there are seemingly about IQ).
A thing I like to say is you didn't earn your intelligence any more than a 7'0" man earned his height - to some degree it seems innate (we don't even really know how).
This all said, it seems even more pointless to try to "IQ" test an AI in this manner. What does it predict? What is it measuring? And you're not going to be able to use the same questions for more than 1 test, because the AI will "learn" the answers.
There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, and there are unknown unknowns. The wise man knows he cannot know what he does not know and that it'd be naive to presume he knows when he cannot know how much he doesn't know. Therefore, only the unintelligent man really _knows_ anything.
Then, IQ can be derived by determining how quickly all participants can answer the questionnaire correctly, and ranking their speeds, and then normalizing the values so 100 is in the middle.
Turns out, scores will fall along a bell curve if you do that. You can call that phenomenon whatever, but most people call it IQ and hopefully I've explained well why that has nothing at all to do with static knowledge in this comment.
Consider calculating 1+1*1*1*1*1*1*1*1... (= 2). It doesn't matter how quickly someone attempts to multiply an infinite number of 1s they will never succeed because infinity is too large. They have to notice a shortcut that lets them skip doing all the calculations. That shows the difference between calculation speed and happening upon a superior strategy.
But people who can calculate very quickly will have a lot of opportunities to come up with a successful strategy because they can try more in what time they have.
Trying to then take this flawed approach and apply it to AI is ludicrous and completely jumping the shark to me. You want to take a flawed measure of human intelligence that we also dont understand fully, and apply it to a machine that we also dont really understand? Ok, then miss me when I laugh at that kind of talk, it is just so silly. This is a more general rant in this broader thread and not directed at anyone spefifically.
I think it's really eye opening into what we can do. The guy trains a year and wins the US competition, moving on to represent the US in a world competition. I think anyone would be impressed if you saw someone memorize a deck of cards in under 2 minutes. But maybe the most astonishing thing is that we are all capable of this but very few can.
I mean we all go on "autopilot" at times. Much more frequently in things we do frequently. That's kinda a state of high recall. Not much thinking needs to be done. A great example of this might be a speed cuber, someone who solves rubix cubes fast. Clearly they didn't start that fast.
> IQ is compute speed, not storage.
Says who? Honestly. I've never seen that claim before. Sure, tests are timed but that's a proxy for efficiency in extrapolation.If we define IQ in this way then LLMs far outperform any human. I'm pretty confident this would be true of even more traditional LMs.
Speed really is just the measurement of recall. A doubt we'd call someone intelligent if they memorized the multiplication table up to 100x100. Maybe at first but when we ask them for 126*8358?
> Says who?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann#Mathematical_...
Von Neumann's mathematical fluency, calculation speed, and general problem-solving ability were widely noted by his peers. Paul Halmos called his speed "awe-inspiring." Lothar Wolfgang Nordheim described him as the "fastest mind I ever met". Enrico Fermi told physicist Herbert L. Anderson: "You know, Herb, Johnny can do calculations in his head ten times as fast as I can! And I can do them ten times as fast as you can, Herb, so you can see how impressive Johnny is!" Edward Teller admitted that he "never could keep up with him", and Israel Halperin described trying to keep up as like riding a "tricycle chasing a racing car."
He had an unusual ability to solve novel problems quickly. George Pólya, whose lectures at ETH Zürich von Neumann attended as a student, said, "Johnny was the only student I was ever afraid of. If in the course of a lecture I stated an unsolved problem, the chances were he'd come to me at the end of the lecture with the complete solution scribbled on a slip of paper." When George Dantzig brought von Neumann an unsolved problem in linear programming "as I would to an ordinary mortal", on which there had been no published literature, he was astonished when von Neumann said "Oh, that!", before offhandedly giving a lecture of over an hour, explaining how to solve the problem using the hitherto unconceived theory of duality.
A story about von Neumann's encounter with the famous fly puzzle has entered mathematical folklore. In this puzzle, two bicycles begin 20 miles apart, and each travels toward the other at 10 miles per hour until they collide; meanwhile, a fly travels continuously back and forth between the bicycles at 15 miles per hour until it is squashed in the collision. The questioner asks how far the fly traveled in total; the "trick" for a quick answer is to realize that the fly's individual transits do not matter, only that it has been traveling at 15 miles per hour for one hour. As Eugene Wigner tells it, Max Born posed the riddle to von Neumann. The other scientists to whom he had posed it had laboriously computed the distance, so when von Neumann was immediately ready with the correct answer of 15 miles, Born observed that he must have guessed the trick. "What trick?" von Neumann replied. "All I did was sum the geometric series."
> Von Neumann's mathematical fluency, calculation speed, and general problem-solving ability were widely noted by his peers
I'm impressed by LeBron's basketball skills. I'm not sure what that has to do with IQ.Certainly von Neumann's quickness helped him solve problems faster, but I'm not sure what this has to do with the discussion at hand. The story of Polya is not dependent upon von Neumann's speed, but it certainly makes it more impressive. The quote says "unsolved problem." It would be impressive if a solution were handed back in any amount of time.
Maybe this is an issue of bubbles, but 90% of the commentary I see about IQ is similar to yours, claiming it is meaningless or low impact.
> "Intelligence" itself is very ill-defined
While this is true, it is well agreed upon (by domain experts) that intelligence is distinct from knowledge recall. But that's what most of these tests... test.If you look at IQ tests you'll see that they are attempts to test things that aren't knowledge based. You'll also notice that the main critiques of IQ tests are about how they often actually measure knowledge and that there's bias in natural knowledge acquisition. So even the disagreements about the definition of intelligence make clear that knowledge and intelligence are distinct. I feel that often people conflate "intelligence is ill-defined" with "intelligence has no definition." These two are not in opposition. Being ill-defined is more like "I know I left my phone in the house, but I'm not sure where." This is entirely different from "I lost my phone, it is somewhere in California" or "It is somewhere on Earth" and clearly different from "I lost my phone. I'm unsure if I had a phone. What even is a phone?"
It's just that OP was questioning this group's criteria for selecting the questions that determine intelligence. Then we get into endless discussions of semantics.
At the end of the day, you are just testing which questions your AI performs well on, and you can describe how you chose those questions. Claiming it measures "general intelligence" is just unhelpful and frustrating.
But this is like trying to test an elephant but you can't get access to an elephant so you instead train a dog. But putting a dog in an elephant costume doesn't make it an elephant. Sure, dog training will likely mean you can learn to train an elephant faster had you not first trained a dog. Some things transfer, but others don't
I also want to stress that there is a rough consensus. But the ML field (which I'm a part of) often ignores this. I'm not sure why. We should be leveraging the work of others, not trying to start from scratch (unless there's good reason, in which case we must be explicit. But I'm just seeing simple claims of "intelligence is ill-defined" and treating that as if that means no definition instead of fuzzy definition. Which gets extra weird when people talk about moving goal posts. That's how progress works? Especially when exploring into the unknown?)
One of the most powerful uses of LLMs for me, at least, is brainstorming: having them suggest possible avenues for me to pursue with specific projects I am working on. If I give Claude or ChatGPT or Gemini enough context about my problems, they usually come up with useful suggestions—sometimes amazingly well. Are they better at that than the smartest human? I don't know. How do you quantify the quality of an idea? But those ideas often seem really, really good to me.
Another difficult-to-measure capability is interaction. Back-and-forth conversations with models don't always go well, but when they work they frequently blow me away. But those successes are dependent partly on the model, partly on me, and partly on how the conversation happens to unfold. Again, that success or failure doesn't seem measurable with benchmarks that require objectively right answers.
1. Language and how interrelated it is to our ability to transfer knowledge and experience, as well as its role in structuring our internal thinking. I haven't seen any academic research on the matter, but there are more and less concrete instances of this throughout history. This Wikipedia article about the history of Algebra is a great example of how 2000 years of evolution led to a formulation of the same concepts, but with a reduced cognitive load that 10-12 years olds learn today as a matter of course. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_algebra#Stages_of_a...).
2. Knowledge, transferred through language, education, and culture. Calculus in the early 1600's is a great example, without it and subsequent developments, probably 80% of the college/post-grad math/science/physics education wouldn't even exist. The stuff we teach our 18 year olds today required the 1600s' greatest minds to figure out.
3. The capacity of our human wetware.
It's hard to treat #3 in isolation because our modern concept of intelligence is inextricably tied to #1 and #2. Also it's hard to place where "critical thinking" and "creativity" enter the picture, since they both rely heavily on all three aspects above.
I think you are falling into the trap of "we have technology and are therefore smarter." I would expect an average Roman senator could formulate far better speeches off the top of his head than 99% of modern people, and also in excess of anything an LLM is capable of. And that's supposed to be an LLM's specialty, there's no comparison when it comes to organizing actual projects like construction or campaigns.
If you created a new benchmark today that didn't lean on the things I've mentioned or esoteric/super specialized domain knowledge (that would actually require some sort of super-human performance to ace) like this or Frontier Math, LLMs would probably do pretty well.
I largely empathize with your point. But, as I can recognize there are some out there far better at problem solving than I am, I am growing ok with the idea that intelligence can be measured. Not to a single number, most likely, but to a variety of different aspects.
Similarly, I'd imagine that a human from 2000 years ago is probably more hardy than one from the modern age. If only because of selection effects at play.
Obviously, you can't extrapolate a straight line between either measurement and expect it to continue in either direction. But I don't know why you couldn't build up a measurement for it?
(And it should go without saying that you shouldn't be judging worth using this sort of measurement.)
Remember that 2000 years ago is 24AD, the middle of the Roman empire and Han dynasty which covered half of the world population. Nobles would be literate and well educated, artisans and soldiers would be skilled, and I bet there were lots of smart peasants that got ignored.
They wouldn't do well on intelligence tests because not used to it, but that is more about tests than their intelligence. I'm sure that the average intelligence is lower than now from lack of education and malnutrition. Smart ones would still be smart. Also, I bet people from now would do poorly in their environment.
Such that my question mostly still stands? Again, I'm largely inline with the view that this will be difficult to test. However, I'm also comfortable in saying that you can tell intelligence levels between people. Again, with a caveat that I don't think it is reducible to a single number. (Such that I think I also think it is fair to say most views of intelligence, in the colloquial sense, are not transitive.)
As an example, as much as I loved my grandparents, I have zero difficulty saying that a few of them would never be able to score as well on some problem solving tests as a few of the kids in the current generation. At the same time I know some people in their 80s that I will never be able to compare with. Again, I don't expect it is a straight line, along the time axis. I also don't know that I agree that every person 2000 years ago just didn't do calculus because they weren't taught it.
To my awareness, there is nothing in the fossil record to suggest that an anatomically modern human (Homo sapiens), which may have first emerged as much as 500,000 years ago, would be distinguishable from currently living humans. Here's a thought experiment: We have a time machine. We travel back 500k years and abduct a pair of Homo sapiens (male and female). We transport them forward in time to our present. We cause them to breed and produce offspring. During gestation, they live in a modern environment (nutrition, shelter, etc.). At birth we take the newborn infant and give it to a modern, contemporaneous couple to raise. Is there is reason to believe it (the infant) would not emerge as a normal, modern adult?
If there is no reason, what does that imply about intelligence? Is knowledge separable from it? Or is knowledge a necessary component of it? Or is knowledge itself "intelligence"? For my part, I think it is a distinct attribute, but I assign a low probability to that belief.
Again, I am largely agreed with the idea. But, evidence is not as clear cut. We had entire civilizations that never utilized wheels. Writing was not universal across all humanity.
Would I prefer that it is only access to technology that confers advantages that we see in developing thought? Absolutely. I'm not able to categorically assume it, though.
Because we have intellectual artefacts from that time that show us. Artefacts that underlay much of modern society, and that in many respects still hold up, even though we've built upon them for 20 generations.
I don't think I've come across any evidence suggesting that the human brain has changed the last 2000 years. After all, the Great Pyramid of Giza was built 4600 years ago. That construction required fairly advanced engineering. That's sort of beside the point though.
To go back to my original comment, there is some distinction to be made between knowledge and intelligence. Even those should probably be decomposed into further salient attributes. And modern LLMs seem to capture some of those attributes, but do not yet strike me as "intelligent" in the way the average human is intelligent, but the average dog is not.
I don't know, maybe I am conflating sentience or consciousness or embodiment or something else with intelligence.
And, I get it, most kids that are "gifted" at super young age all somewhat converge with where others were going to get in a few years time. But I don't think we fully appreciate just how early we are able to get our kids reading across the board. Do we have evidence that you could get a mediocre teacher to prehistoric classrooms and have them get kids reading as well as we do on the regular today?
And, quickly, as I say in sibling posts, I was taking "2000" to be a shorthand for absurdly old. My general question, there, is do you not think we are getting smarter?
I realize this is a hazard of discussions, as most people seem to think this somehow logically leads to every terrible take it could. I don't agree with those. I do fully think that my children will net be smarter and stronger than me in most every way. I'd expect that my grandchildren will continue that trend. It seems to me that thinking otherwise is to either think that evolution has stopped with us, or that we have stagnated for other reasons?
Aristotle was like 2,400 years ago, for context lol
I get that evolution takes generations. But, it actually moves rather fast for some things, no?
Rather fast is like millions of years in evolutionary terms so 2,000 years is nothing. I don’t even think there’s significant evidence to show that Neanderthals were less intelligent than Homo sapiens and they were around from 400,000 years ago to 40,000 years ago or so. Human brains and also brain-body mass ratio wouldn’t have changed enough to make much of a noticeable difference if you teleport a human baby from thousands of years ago to today and put them through our education system.
It’s just easier to dismiss them as stupid because very little of their life has survived til today.
To the point, I mentioned that Aristotle was 2,400 years ago and you still landed on “largely compatible” lol. The pyramids were built over 4,000 years ago and they’re still a marvel of engineering. You just have a bias against people from thousands of years ago again mostly because a lot of their work didn’t survive to modern day.
My general question is largely the same, though. Do you think we haven't evolved with more intelligence since proto-human periods? Because that seems to be the claim, that we somehow evolved intelligence, and it has been solely knowledge acquisition since then. I suspect that is defensible, but feels off to me.
And my nitpicks would be that evolution isn't measured in years, but generations. And moves more rapidly when pressure on a population is stronger. Seeing how autistic so many "smart" people act, I confess I would expect more negative pressure on those behaviors in the past.
And no, I don’t think there’s a noticeable difference in terms of intelligence between us and someone from 30,000 years ago or even something more extreme like 300,000 years ago. We’re still the same species after all.
I do think you’d be more open to that idea if we had records of their thoughts and ideas. The early humans who came up with epic tales and the explorers who went on grand expeditions to unexplored territories. The people who used an early scientific method to come up with ways to preserve food or figure out what plants were safe to eat. The people who figured out better ways to build clothing for extreme weather. These weren’t dumb people.
To that general idea, I similarly have zero issue with claiming some dogs are dumber than other dogs. They obviously all fail at what we would call language skills, in they can form a rudimentary problem solving ability just fine.
And, I can't remember what thread I said it in, but I do stress this isn't a transitive property. It is a lot like someone can be better at sports than someone else, but worse specifically at a specific sport.
I can imagine a dystopian world where people are subject to this for training and testing AI.
> seem to be very one dimensional in terms of measuring intelligence.
I would argue that they DON'T measure intelligence, rather they test knowledge.Frustratingly, I think we have a society greatly focused on knowledge based testing due to its correlation with intelligence and that it is exponentially easier to test knowledge. But this is easy to hack. Being in CS it feels very odd since we all know a great way to get hired is to study leetcode questions. That is, study to the test.
This is critical to recognize this difference as what we know for certain is that LLMs and other ML systems are analogous to a database with a human language interface[0]. What we DO NOT KNOW is if these systems are intelligent. That is, that they can use their exploit their knowledge to unfamiliar territories. Then there's the whole question of wisdom...
This stuff is highly abstract and we can get fuzzy so it is natural to go for the simple thing but we need to graduate. Don't avoid the tough questions, dig in. As we advance in any study nuance takes over. This should be obvious. If we approximate things, to improve we need to tackle higher order terms, and that almost always becomes exponentially more difficult with each step.
And come on, is this benchmark not obvious bait? Calling it "humanity's last exam" is extremely arrogant.
Definitions:
Knowledge: Awareness of facts. The ability to recall information.
Intelligence: Ability to exploit knowledge to new settings. To be able to plan and reason.
(Definitions of intelligence are much more debated than knowledge but what is far less controversial is that intelligence is about the way one uses knowledge. These two are distinct. This is fairly well agreed upon throughout history and within modern literature around psychology and cognitive science.)
Wisdom: The efficient use of one's knowledge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom
There is a implicit hierarchy here[1] where knowledge is something to be had, intelligence is the utilization of that, and wisdom is about efficiency. There's a decent analogy to this hierarchy. Knowledge is like having a tool. Intelligence is like using it, a craftsman[2]. Wisdom is akin to being a master craftsman.[0] I mean that they fit the data. A database is discrete, but these curve fit, so that will be a continuous function (in most cases). Thus it won't be exact retrieval nor does this mean information can't be interpolated. But that gets to be a deeper and much more complex conversation that I think we like to admit.
[1] This is clearly multi-dimensional. You can organize hierarchies in multiple ways, I'm not suggesting this is the only way or "the right way"
[2] What is argued is what is a sufficient threshold. An armchair expert might know how to use a lathe because they read about its usage but does that mean they can use it? What about a novice who you can show something to and they can repeat it? Monkey see monkey do style. An apprentice? A craftsman? There's a lot of gray area between being able to recall something from a book and being a wizard (gray beard).