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Comment by duxup | Hacker News Reader

I love my Subaru as far as reliability, all wheel drive performance in snow and ice, and such.

But OMG it's consumer tech was dated when I bough it, and it's just full of inexplicable issues and caveats and such. Even just the limitations and the UX issues are so obvious that it sends a message that if they tried to fix them they would introduce just as many new issues. I'm at the point where despite the car being good, I'm not interested in a new one from Subaru.

I just want carplay or android auto whatever similar services a given mobile OS provides to do similar things. That's it, every time it's something else (even when offering car play) from a car maker it is so bad and so naively built that it makes me less confidant in that company.

I know, they want my data and all and that's the motivation, but man it's just such a downer with every system.... and here I am with a good car in most respects and I'm not planning on buying from them again.

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I suspect it has to do with slow adoption of CarPlay/Android Auto in Japan - everyone still options aftermarket infotainment at dealerships and happier about it than with phone-based experiences. From a random Google search result[1]:

  > More than three-fourths (79%) cite the built-in navigation system. However, this percentage has decreased from 81% in 2022 and 82% in 2021. Use of Android Auto/Apple CarPlay apps is increasingly the preferred system, with 7% of users citing this in 2023, compared with 5% in 2022 and 3% in 2021.

That's like 80% CP/AA adoption by 2060.

UI/UX and especially overall experience polish had always been a major challenge for Japanese engineering. Everything is committee designed in perpetual intra-company tug of war, and it shows as a "family sized mega pack" UI consists of bunch of snippet codes each with an attention grab dialog to prove its worth. That was clearly one of major causes that led to total collapse of domestic phone industry and iPhone dominance, but I suppose it hasn't affected car infotainment, or mass market cars in general.

1: https://japan.jdpower.com/sites/japan/files/file/2023-11/202...

>UI/UX and especially overall experience polish had always been a major challenge for Japanese engineering.

I can believe it. The whole issue of "Japanese video game companies don't understand the internet" to some extent still feels like it is an issue at times.

For a while it felt like we got late 1990s solutions in the mid 2010s... it's gotten better-ish in the land of video games, but man it's so bad at times still.

sony fixed this with the ps4 by saying eff it "harware is done in japan where we're good at it, you brits and yanks can have the software"

Weird part is it doesn't seem to be working out as a business. They've completely lost mystique doing that.

Hmm this is really different than my experience with a 2018 Crosstrek, so maybe things have changed? When I bought it, Subaru was among the earlier CarPlay/Android Auto adopters (we specifically ruled out a new model year Prius because it lacked it and we couldn't wait a year to replace our totaled car just for CarPlay/AA), and other than a very rare issue where the head unit screen doesn't turn on, it's been pretty rock solid with both phone OSes.

Environmental controls are all physical hardware, CarPlay/AA is integrated well, etc; I can't really complain about any UX in the car.

The only UX gripe I can think of is that Apple doesn't let you use natural touch inputs to pan/zoom a map (instead forcing you to tap to bring up on-screen d-pad, then keep tapping the tiny button targets while trying to keep an eye on the road), but that's entirely on Apple; Android Auto allows normal 2 finger pan/zoom, so it's not a Subaru problem.

I noticed that too with CarPlay. Trying to pan around in Waze is impossible but doing it in Android Auto is very easy. The one nice thing about CarPlay Waze is that it allows keyboard input, Android Auto (at least in my Subaru) only allows for speech to text when searching locations.

It's something about how they have it configured. I have a '17 Honda Civic and its built-in CarPlay lets me pan and scroll just fine. However, on my '23 Ascent, I have to tap arrows to pan the map, and vertical "scrolling" is actually just pagination. Same iPhone, different behavior. It must be some simple config toggle on Subaru's end that they left off for whatever reason.

i believe it is related to the capabilities of the touch screen itself. something like "if no multi-touch available, fall back to the pan/scroll interface" makes sense to me.

2018 is the last year some Subaru models had non-terrible head units. The iPad style vertically oriented screen are the problematic type.

Physical controls are gone, the UX is terrible, and the hardware is underpowered post 2018.

I have a 2018 Crosstrek and a 2024 Outback. They both are really, really, good, and here are the two rough edges.

* Crosstrek doesn't do wireless CP/AA, and the USB only supplies 1.5a, so it sometimes isn't enough to charge the phone while listening to music and navigating. This is a common problem in 2018 vehicles. USB-C had not conquered the world yet.

* Outback has a big screen. The only complaint is that it is too aggressive, telling users no because the vehicle is moving. Passenger operating the touch screen is a thing, and nothing is worse than having to pull over so someone can change a setting. Also, it is a very bad experience to be going 70MPH, tap a button, and be told no - will be interesting to see if this causes accidents where people momentarily stop paying attention to the road because they are raging to the touch screen.

One thing that is really nice about Subaru is that the controls just evolve a little from model year to model year. When I got the Outback, there were only a few buttons that had moved to get used to. Aside from climate control, almost everything has buttons, and most of the time, they are on a stalk or steering wheel.

There is no cure for digital privacy in any modern car. And there is no consumer choice to enable or disable data sharing. We need some legislative intervention here.

> that's entirely on Apple

CarPlay supports pan gestures based on configuration provided to it by the car maker. This is entirely on Subaru for misconfiguring their CarPlay integration.

yep...

there was a tv ad for subaru vehicles a couple of years ago (not that long!), and during the ad, they showed the infotainment system, where the user pans the map on the navigation touchscreen, and the map moves at maybe 1fps! in an ad!

I kinda wish they standardized the car interface for tablets (like android auto, but more features), where you could just buy a tablet and insert it in (like din slots for radio, but tablet-sized), and the car would expose some non-critical interfaces to the tablet (AC,...), and you could just buy a replacement tablet if needed. Cars are made to last 10, 15, even more years, while the computers/entertainment devices move a lot faster, and that includes the connectivity (many cars on the streets today were made before 4g, and 3g is mostly dead).

This is a genuinely good idea for a business that I think you should explore further if you have the bandwidth.

i have such a subaru - the nav is a joke - the whole UX for their GUI is bad but the car seems mostly okay

recently got a mazda - seems generally better though I think most car interfaces are crap

unfortunately the entire global system is designed so that more has to be sold than last year. in the US as a publicly traded corporation you are legally liable to make more than the year before... we're lucky cars even last as long as they do now...

Look into "iDatalink" aftermarket radios

Subaru infotainment is also very controlling. Want to use the keypad while you’re taking a phone call on the go? No, it won’t let you if the car is moving. You’ll need to use your phone’s UI. Other CarPlay cars don’t do this.

My 2017 Mazda with CarPlay does something similar. It truncates any lists (songs, podcast episodes, contacts, etc) that CarPlay displays to 10 items. All it does is incentivize folks to use their phone. It's incredibly annoying because the Mazda command dial for interacting with CarPlay is otherwise excellent and I don't think that limiting the list size does anything to reduce distraction.

It is an incentive to use Siri. You can’t actually use carplay if Siri is disabled.

I find this restriction weird as well. I would like to not have my privacy violated by voice assistants. I just want the phone interface to be accessible through the car display and to be able to control it through a dial ideally.

I mean people really like carplay so if you want them to enable something then tie it to carplay.

I really like the dials some cars come with like BMWs. Subaru doesn’t have any dials at all unfortunately - just a touchscreen with really bad quality. The interface also often has buttons with very small size that make it hard to operate.

My subaru has a fairly mediocre touchscreen and interface but almost all of the things I actually use are manual controls. I usually turn the touchscreen off first thing when I get in the car (two button presses). My phone connects automatically for music and I either control through the phone or via dials (like for volume) or buttons (like for climate)

My BMW does the same. I can't use the CarPlay keyboard while moving.

It is especially annoying since the car does not (can not) distinguish between me or the missus pressing the touch screen.

On my VW I disabled this limitation with a VCDS coder. What's funny is that the flag was labeled 'nhtsa_limitation_switches_for_X' nhtsa as in National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

I purposesly bought the last Subaru without Carplay/Android Auto for this reason - I could upgrade my head unit but I like the slightly more oldschool one.

The touchscreen is slow to respond and has few options and the only way to really connect a phone is bluetooth or 3.5mm . It really just does music and calls. However long term I was a lot more confident in phones supporting backwards compatiblity for bluetooth vs Subaru keeping carplay/android auto up to date - and I plan to keep this thing for a very long time

I loved mine until the transmission blew out at 96,000 miles. Could be a one-off, but then a friend bought a used one with 108,000 miles, and the dealer proudly noted that it had a new transmission just installed. I think that vaunted reliability is gone.

That aside, the one thing I haven't liked is the electronics. Many times it gets out of sync with the phone and simply can't connect, the only fix is to shut the car off, open the door so the stereo shuts off, then restart the car. The FM radio also quit working at one point, which I didn't really care about, but the dealer applied a software update and it started working again. That's just the visible stuff though, so much of the car is software controlled now, I think you have to start taking any software issues as a warning about the overall car.

The boxer engines also burn oil like crazy after like 75k miles, I gave up on Subaru and got a RAV4.

Subaru's in-vehicle entertainment technology has long been criticized, even before features like CarPlay became standard. Take my 2012 WRX, for example—its Bluetooth reception was the worst I've ever experienced in a Bluetooth-equipped vehicle. Audio feeds would randomly pop and drop out during podcasts, even when the phone was within a two-foot radius of the deck.

Over the years, I tried multiple iOS and Android phones, but nothing improved the situation. Ultimately, the only solution was a complete deck replacement. Now, I’m using a "Joying" Android head unit with a rip-off version of CarPlay, which has finally resolved these issues.

I have a car from another Japanese manufacturer (Mazda) - their connected services app is weird and clunky and was down twice this month. And I'm expected to pay $10/month for this thing after the first year! Cmon.

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