Turn any bicycle electric
dhruvvidyut.co.in
dhruvvidyut.co.in
As far as "any bike can be an ebike" I'm surprised that Hilltoppers[0] haven't gained more traction over the years. You just pop off your current bike's front wheel and install theirs.
[0] https://hilltopperbikes.com/product-category/electric-bike-k...
Needless to say, you save more money if you change the wheels over yourself. That's a 45 minute job for me, including finding the tools and putting them away.
I eventually got a whole new set of tires+wheels and the shop still swaps them for free.
Depending on where you drive, it's a good idea to rebalance your tires on a regular basis anyway.
Incidentally, my tire shop said they've had people lose the balancing weights due to the current adhesive not being able to handle the heat this summer. Hopefully they switch to something stronger next year, but it looks like you may have to rebalance twice per summer...
I have found the cheapest and most convenient solution for me is to buy high-end studless snow rated tires with a mileage warranty and run them all year.
As for the time, I consider it an opportunity to have a look at the brakes and suspension, make sure the lug nuts are torqued appropriately, and that the wheel comes free without undue force. And it's practice for having to change a wheel at a time not of your choosing. If you're used to doing it, it's an irritation, not an emergency.
I'll admit to only having one honest-to-god pull-over-to-the side-of-the-road-and-get-out-the-jack flat tire in my life. I guess I've changed a couple for other people too though.
The rubber and tread patterns are getting more feasible for year-round running. I can't fault your choice, especially if you've done the changeover yourself in the past.
In Italy Norauto charges 11€ for tires (17"), 10.50€ for wheels [2]
Other countries show higher differences, though.
[1] https://www.atu.de/pages/meisterwerkstatt/wartung-service/re...
[2] https://www.norauto.it/e/cambio-gomme.html?cod=PSNGOO00001IT...
So for most automobiles, the tire (tyre) can be detached from the rim, which can be detached from the wheel hub, which encloses the wheel bearing, which is generally friction fitted to the axle (or steering knuckle/hub carrier).
Or said another way, both the tire and rim are subassemblies of the wheel, which is also constituted of a wheel bearing and hub. Some manner of brake is also generally attached to the wheel, but is not essential to the definition of a wheel.
Bicycles wheels are generally packaged along with the axle, which can be removed as one subassembly from the bike fork.
Of course the great problem with pedantry is that once you start down this road, each following step must be taken with great care. In other words, I've almost certainly said something wrong here, Muphry be praised.
What is the most technically correct definition of the "RJ45" connector that you can construct? Something something 8P8C EIA/TIA standard UTP termination something something.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Exploded-view-of-wheel-b...
I know many people find pedantry to be viscerally repulsive, and feel that the pedant is acting self-important. I disagree with this because if you look deeper down, I think there is a reason for it: To be able to name and distinguish things. Let me give a few examples:
Some people think it's okay to abbreviate kilometres as "kms", whereas the standard is "km". By analogy, that would mean it's okay to abbreviate watts (a unit of power) as "Ws" and newtons (a unit of force) as "Ns". But now you can't distinguish them from actually useful units, like the watt-second for photographic flash output energy or newton-second for rocket impulse.
I've encountered people who call a laptop computer as a "laptop" (okay) but a desktop computer as just "computer". That makes no sense, as a laptop is a computer, and can easily be a desktop replacement especially if you attach an external monitor, keyboard, and mouse.
These days, it's common to ask "Do you want to buy the game disc or get the digital version?". But that's a misnomer because the data on the disc is digital! Ask anyone from the cassette vs. CD days about whether CD is digital music or not. Common speech ascribes qualities to digital that are not inherent in the definition. Digital does not imply electronic, high-tech, new, or immaterial; there are counterexamples to all of these. There can be digital logic made of plastic mechanical LEGO; digital signaling is as low-tech as a man writing numbers on a tablet; digital is as old as DNA (a 4-symbol code); digital information can be transmitted by physical objects like CDs or by energy like Wi-Fi radio waves.
I argue that the core qualities of "digital" are finite information and perfect copies. For example, you cannot measure the real-valued positions of every single atom in a painting, nor can you copy it perfectly. Technically, you can't copy every atom on a "digital" CD either, but by convention we all agree that the exact atoms are irrelevant and only the high-level interpretation is important. For example, no one argues that a file on a server's hard disk is any "better" than the same file transmitted over the Internet to some rando's flash drive; both files are equally good.
Pedantry means "pay attention to what these words are supposed to mean, not what you want them to mean".
I don't think that's really a misnomer.
You're ordering some food, do you want the combo or the sandwich? The combo has the sandwich of course, nobody is implying otherwise. But if you say "the sandwich" then you get just the sandwich wrapped up in a delivery medium.
Don't know whether your spelling was intentional or not, but anyway:
Muphry's law:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry's_law
Murphy's law:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy%27s_law
Edit: I just saw this one for the first time, after re-reading the one above:
Yhprum's law:
Nah, they're selling a complete wheel (wheelset?), which consists of: Axle, electric hub, spokes, spoke nipples, rim, inner tube, valve, valve core, tire.
(Addendum: To any downvoters, I was replying to the parent's original text as I first saw it. They made an edit after my reply, within their 2-hour window.)
New ebikes from reputable brands come with good brakes from the factory.
In many countries ebike assistance is strictly limited. Sure an ebike weight more than a regular bike, but the stress in brakes is only an issue in hilly places.
If you ride a bike restricting assistance to 25kph (15mph)/like in most countries[1] and do not hit steep dow hills there are very little reason for you to go faster as going past the assistance limit feels like hitting a sudden headwind. In that case you are riding slower than most cyclists doing recreative cycling on road bikes and are less likely to need strong braking.
[1] in europe you can buy faster ones but they need to be registered like a moped (for those limited to 45kph) or motorbikes, have plates and you usually lose the right to use bicycle lanes. Having said that, a lot of people are breaking the law and never get issues until they are involved in an accident and lose insurance coverage and get fined.
Ebikes are generally pretty heavy, even i this case where you are converting an old bike, that aluminum box of batteries is going to add a ton of weight.. and given that there are many older bikes with caliper breaks out there... that's pretty scary. At least the expand ships with disk breaks (still not up to the task but a caliper break would be totally ineffective).
For most e-bikes, you're looking at maybe an extra 30lb/14kg. That's generally within the envelope of reasonable rider weights. If the combined bike and rider weight is too much for the brakes, it's probably also too much for the whole bike.
Again, not that there aren't worthless brakes in the world, but it's usually not the weight of the battery and motor that pushes a set of brakes over the edge.
Fact is most department store bikes comes with shitty brakes, or brakes not setup by professionals (lacking cable tension, shitty stock brake pads) but the very same happen when an high end bike is badly maintained by its owner. But this is a tangential problem.
I rate Rad Power bikes as shitty department store quality bikes anyway. They are successful because they are cheap and people know they can easily bypass the set assistance limits. They are cheap because the brand spec them with the cheapest components available. It doesn't help that most bikes are delivered to the owner's door without being revised by professional and appart from googling how to change the assistance limit speed Rad Power owners are rarely knowledgeable enough in bikes to correct any setup issue.
And then you remove your bottle cage to install their battery (hope you don't ride a small frame). And then you install the speed/cadence sensor. Then you install the display/swtich/throttle assembly. Then you wire it all up.
And then you get into all the compatibility problems - many e-bike conversion kits are sold with a freehub that's not the correct size for modern cassettes (comes with HG 9-speed, need an HG 11-speed, XD, XDR, or Microspline freehub). Axle widths and axle type (bolt, QR, thru-axle).
Granted, all the above is easier than it sounds, but it's not quite as simple as "swap wheel, done". You need a working knowledge of bicycles to do this.
Then there's the cost. Basic "unbranded" kits are $500 or so. Brand-name kits, larger battery, or mid-drive kits cost more. Is it worth putting a $500 kit on an old bike that's only worth $100? Or, are you better off buying a new bike with warranty and no need for service for years (which will cost $1500-$3000).
People who can't ride usually don't go OTB because of the torque around the front wheel (i.e. the entire bike rotating), they go OTB because they can't handle (or aren't ready for) the sheer force of the deceleration, it makes their hands fold.
If I hit somebody else on my bike… I don’t think I have insurance for that liability? I don’t think my auto or homeowner’s insurance policy mentions me riding bikes at all, let alone an exclusion for DIY e-bikes.
The problem is (IMO) e-bikes that are more "motorcycle" than "bicycle". Which includes a massive number of the kits.
There currently is no national framework for classifying e-bikes. There's the 3 tier system that some industry groups use, but it directly conflicts with most state's moped/motorcycle regulations.
Safe bet for an e-bike is a "class 1" bike from a major brand. 20mph cap, no throttle, the most "bicycle" of the 3.
Class 2 bikes keep the 20mph cap, but add a throttle (don't need to pedal). This probably makes it a moped or small (50cc) scooter in some states.
Class 3 removes the throttle, but bumps the top speed to 28mph. Again, this speed probably makes it a moped or scooter (or possibly even a full motorcycle).
And then there's the e-bikes that are more motorcycle than bike. 30+mph, powerful engines, and the pedals are truly vestigial. Supe73 and Surron bikes fall in this category.
Pedaled vs throttle is an ablest issues; not everyone has picked up on this.
I’m ambivalent about throttles - much more concerned about the mass and speed of some e-bike when they inevitably get used on sidewalks, multi-use paths, etc.
And if you don’t think you have liability coverage, that’s exactly the risk. If your policy doesn’t mention bikes, it’s more likely not covered than automatically included. The more you do things outside the norm—like DIY e-bikes—the higher the chance standard policies don’t cover it.
Not saying you’re wrong, just that it’s worth checking so you don’t get caught off guard.
To be fair, all of these problems exist when doing work on normal bikes too.
You see a lot of skaters carrying their skate in a bikepack by bike to the skatepark. Surely if skating is their passion and the longboard would be a perfect medium/longer distance solution they would use one to carry their smaller skateboard to the skatepark. Yet you never see that.
Previously I lived in London and commuted by longboard there as well. Obviously flat but the surface quality of the pavement was a lot worse, so my knees did complain more.
That bike bottles are so small seems to be due to small frames. 750ml is about the max normal size. I’ve tracked down some 950ml ones, but I’m sure you could go larger with a decent sized frame.
Most of the batteries for e-bike kits look to be at least the size of a 1L bottle, if not even larger.
That word does not mean what you think it means.
2. They're dangerous. FWD ebikes have a tendency to break traction on corners.
3. They tend to destroy the dropouts in your fork.
4. Installation is much more complex than "pop off your bike's front wheel". I can't even find the axle compatibility specs on their website. You know that there are many standards for front axles, right?
Do not recommend.
- the chain is routed through the add-on device, so it should be longer than usual
- the pedals don't rotate when the chain and the wheel do, so there is a custom pedal hub with a ratchet mechanism
The design is pretty clever, I was expecting more work to make things happen. Also, the individual parts about mud and fireproofing etc. are quite illustrative.
However, for me the best part was the scenery. It just looks somehow... peaceful. Calm. I actually watched this several times just because of the scenery.
I don't know why it seems so peaceful. Maybe because the scenery and nature and the light (?!) reminds me of the late summers when I bicycled (not quite as effortlessly though) home as a child when the Sun was low. I mean especially the part when the dog is chasing him.
I was annoyed at one thing though: he casually throws the empty container of flammable liquid into the ditch. I hope he picked it up afterwards.
Even if the product actually did nothing useful (which is not the case here), the video itself a great marketing copy. <3
As a product person, this excites me.
However... I'm curious. This was launched ~2 years ago (per the YT video [1]). What happened? Is this still working? How is the company doing? Any ideas?? I don't see any other videos on their channel. I see some action on their Twitter [2] but sporadic.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFsnS0Yb1Bs [2] https://x.com/dhruvvidyut
>Manufacturing or manufacturing at scale for Bharat requires decisive trajectory and a whole another level of preparation & execution.
>After months of testing and streamlining DVECK... pilot orders
I guess making things is hard. Also having been in developing countries, people tend to buy the cheap Chinese stuff you see advertised on eBay and the like so they are competing with that.
I would bet this thing would be a mad success if the inventor had won the birthplace lottery.
You are only looking at the roads. Look at homes of people. How many garages and cars do you see? Very, very rare.
In city roads, sure, they are filled with traffic and roads are congested.
But even in cities car ownership is kind of rare. In small towns, cars are very rare. In rural areas, they are almost non-existent.
Range: 40km
20 min pedaling charges 50%
Top speed 25kph
So at 15kph, it would take 2.6 hours to reach the stated 40km range. 86.6Wh / 2.6hrs = 32.5W
A model based calculator [2] says that with 32.5W you indeed cycle at 15.5kph.
LiFePo batteries have an energy density of 325Wh/L, so we would need a battery volume of: 86.6Wh/325Wh/L = 0.27L, but a quick search for an example online reveals that a commercial 10Ah 12.8V takes up 1L. That would seem to fit within the product.
I was initially doubting the claims, but it seems to check out ?
[1] https://blog.2peak.com/en/what-are-the-average-watts-of-a-go... [2] https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html
With a perfect bike in a velodrome, maybe.
But on Indias rough roads with an old mountain bike, I suspect this number to be double.
Regarding the 50%, I assumed that they stated this number because this is when the battery is in bulk charge and can suck up as much as you can give it.
For the 250W, I hadn't even seen that, good catch. Maybe 250W is the peak power that cannot be sustained for thermal or current rating reasons ? 250W for a 12.8V 10Ah battery is 2C, so that should not be the limiting factor. I do not know about the motor or the ESC
Also, for sure the maximum range is not achieved with the top speed !
Also interesting that they use .co.in (as in we are from "India") and their name is also very indian . As an indian I actually respect that
Vidyut means electricity in Hindi and dhruv means stars If I remember correctly.
Dhruv is a very common name in India , One of my 5th standard classmate was named dhruv , Like dhruv rathee is a youtuber.
As an indian I appreciate this project. I suppose I have seen it on the Indian shark tank as well but I am not sure!
Dhruv Vidyut could be constant electricity, or Dhruv may just be the name of one of the founders or a relative of one of them.
Dhruva also means the Pole Star in many Indian languages.
It could also come from Indian mythology [0].
I had always thought it from the indian mythology part or the pole star. But pole star is also considered as constant to sailors etc. , so yeah.
I assume it means 25 kph top speed, which is on the slower side for e-bikes.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/kmph
Not common in my country, the UK, but maybe in India? I know the Indian language numbering system has different number groupings, so why not.
This is the maximum speed for an e-bike in many European countries
For the most part it doesn't make much sense for most e-bike users that have power easily available, the time required to charge a battery is a lot (average person puts out about 100-150W) and the average e-bike battery is 500Wh or so, 4+ hours to charge it by pedaling.
A normal mid-drive has clutches specifically to prevent this from happening so you don't get drag from the motor while pedaling without the motor running.
In countries where power is not as readily available it makes a lot more sense.
For commuting, every traffic light is wasted energy, and cycling on the flat doesn't need much once you're at speed. A commuter with regenerative braking could probably have a much smaller battery, making it lighter too.
There are some cool features too like setting a speed limit after which Regen activates, so coasting down a hill will recharge you and add resistance to keep you at a safe speed.
The caveat is it doesn't make sense on mid drives because they freewheel when coasting
But you don't gain much, there's not a lot of weight to slow down with an ebike so regen gives you very little back.
You do lose the ability to efficiently climb steep hills with a hub motor, and they add a ton of unsprung weight if you have rear suspension which ruins its performance, so if that's your kind of terrain they're a bad choice.
Would save on brake pads though.
But by the same token there's not a lot of weight to accelerate either, right? So while a moving bike has much less potential energy to recoup than a car, it needs much less to get back going again also.
So IMHO regen on a bike should be as useful as it is on a car, no?
Right, most of the energy is used pushing air out of the way, which you don't get back from regen. Say you ride half a mile before stopping, the time to accelerate to 20mph is pretty small compared to the time you spend cruising at 20mph pushing all that air out of the way.
That's certainly the case once you're at speed (above 20km/hr is about the point where more energy is spent overcoming wind resistenace iirc). But I'm taking about taking off from the lights. Even to get you to 10 km/hr for free (or cheap) would be a bit boost for a commuter.
It seems to have a recovery efficiency of about one third.
We once went up about 1200m in altitude difference, where it was completely empty. After having gone down again, it had recharged enough to work normally for the remaining 20km of our trip, driving in flat terrain.
You need around 200 watt to hold 25kmph on a flat road without wind with a standard bicycle like the one in the video.
With moderate wind, it is between 350 and 400 watt.
Most non-lycra cyclists I've observed seem to cruise at around 20km/hr; my personal experience is that 20km/hr is pretty easy once you're moving; 25 is a noticable bit more work. Also, for commuting where there are traffic lights involved (based on my own experience), you rarely have a chance to do more than 20, and if you do, any time advantage is killed by the next red light.
The video is long and the innovation is subtle, but once you understand it it's like a lightbulb moment - IMHO a really brilliant example of elegant engineering, and designed by someone who had never ridden an ebike.
IMHO that would be a safety hazard if they removed it from the rear hub. Without that, the chain will always be moving when the bike is moving. If your pants or anything else gets caught in there it ain't stopping.
Leaving it in the back AND putting it in the front as well is probably viable if a bit redundant.
I have a much simpler kind of bike where this is also the case :)
I studied the video, and the only thing that I can conclude is that he simply unbolted the pedals from the chain ring. The pedals would therefore not be doing anything at all except support the rider's feet.
The site says "pedaling recharges the battery." This would require re-bolting the pedals back on.
It's hard to see angles that can really make this clear. Maybe there are some freewheels that let the chain ring spin independently of the pedals, which makes no sense to me.
There was a french company named HXR components which used to produce that, I think they went bankrupt. Nowadays there is the Rocksteady Magic from boutique euro brand Intend: https://www.intend-bc.com/products/rocksteady-magic/
I was always told that that is so you can use smaller sprockets front and rear for the same ratio, giving you more bottom bracket clearance when you're hopping about the place.
Obviously that's a very specific type of bike for a very specific purpose though.
Mid-drives are certainly superior to hub-drives, so that's another plus.
Can it pedal assist? i.e. only kick on when pedaling. That's often a legal requirement.
Doesn't mention cost, weight, or battery capacity.
I'm assuming most of the parts beyond the aluminum chassis are off the shelf. It would be a nice thing to open source, or at least sell the plans so anybody* can build.
* with access to a machine shop
Looks like it drives the chain, so unless you have a freewheeling front hub pedaling may not be optional.
But then when watching closely, I can see there's a cut in the video between the device being placed on the frame and him testing it and in the cut the entire bottom bracket has been replaced and the chain is now making a different path through the machine, so I assume the bottom bracket needs to also have a freewheel to make it work, plus you'll need a new chain (or to join a couple of chains) to make it fit.
I assume this is a "freewheel crank" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_freewheel
can you explain the difference for someone who never heard of either?
Hub drives apply power at the wheel hubs. They are cheaper and smoother (no backlash), so depending on application hub motors may be superior.
Personally I like help up all the hills so mid-drive all the way.
Edit: I said hub motor by accident, but it applies to these motors too.
On the downsides, I have severe doubts over the battery cell quality at that price point, and it looks significantly heavier than other options from the metal case alone (I don't see actual specs for weight).
Love the demo video. The mud and fire scenes made me cringe, which I'm sure is exactly what they were going for (as the motor keeps spinning regardless of the foul treatment)!
I will keep my standard mid-drive conversion kit (I've used TSDZ2 and DM-02 in the past) but always love to see alternatives coming online for other segments of the market.
Too ahead of his time, unfortunately, because the battery technology to support his vision just didn't exist, and consumer sentiment wasn't really there yet.
I'm sad he didn't get to see his visions come true.
It's a different product for a different market, but a really cool idea and the people who have been working on it are super smart.
PikaBoost[1]
It works. But not nearly as well as an ebike, of course. Here's a youtuber doing a fairly in depth review and test of one [2].
[1]https://livall.com/products/livall-pikaboost-2-electrify-you... [2]https://youtu.be/m_wVzoNrDL8?si=gCwvHZgrsV3klZ49
I still haven't pushed the range to the max, but with break regeneration and moderate assistance, it seems like the range would be 50-60 km, which is more than enough for me.
I highly recommend it!
[0] https://www.zehus.it/product-categories/all-in-one
[1] https://nfixed.com/products/gen3-0-zehus-halos-all-in-one-sm...
love the concept and would like them to succeed. just feels like that the relative ease of installation also means it might be easier to steal, especially with the battery integrated inside the kit.
Not even this would be incredibly dangerous (pants caught on the chain? the motor won’t be stopping at all), but it would make it an illegal e-bike in much of the world since it doesn’t qualify as pedal assist, it’s now a flimsy motorcycle.
Top speed would probably depend on the rear cog, unless they're doing something really sneaky.
It completely changed my commute.
This is so awesome I might have to watch "3 Idiots" again.
FWIW, I'm not saying it's wrong, just notable in the apparent robustness.
It was easy to miss, but the first image on the page is actually a fairly detailed video showing it working. Here's a direct link to the video.
On the other hand, I didn't like the non-standard use of metric units: At 0m34s, "25 KPH" should be "25 km/h" (k is not allowed as an abbreviation of km, and p cannot stand for per). At 0m38s, "170KG" should be "170 kg" (metric is case-sensitive). At 0m43s, "40 KMS" should be "40 km" because plural symbols are not allowed (and can be confused for the second, e.g. N⋅s is newton-second and not "newtons").
At 2m20s, the claim "20mins pedalling charges 50% battery" sounds too good to be true. For example, 20 minutes of vigorous pedaling on a manual bike will not let you travel a distance of 20 km (half of the claimed battery range).
At 2m29s, "8 crore bicycles & rickshaws running across India", meaning 80 million, seems like a very small number for a population of 1.4 billion.
That's a new word for me (en-gb native). I assumed it meant something like '8 brands of...'. Thanks for clarifying.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crore , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakh
The only _fairly standard_ part in a bike is the saddle.
I assume minor deflection could be handled by the tensioner inherent in geared bikes.
My take in the ebike/bike debate is just this: if you're not sitted in yet another car, you're winning.
HN has been an engineering-oriented forum and bicycles are "real engineering". Every kind of modern bike is engineered for it's intended use and the idea you can add power and weight without consequences should be suspicious to the engineering mind.
Note: The video shows a USB cable for a charger, which couldn't charge a large-ish battery in an acceptable period, at one point it seems to show power imparted direct to the tire (which would lose a lot of power) but really, how this thing works at all is hard to tell, it's kind of silly to take seriously, even but jeesh.
As to the USB charging - that's an outlet for charging things like mobile devices, not for charging the battery on the bike.
Also it looks to be a USB source, for charging your devices, not the other way around.
It's a nice bit of engineering, making it an all in one package that can bolt onto a frame with minimal effort is quite neat.
I'd love to know why you think it's implausible, from all my work on ebikes it looks legitimate.
It has also a USB outlet to charge your phone.