China won A side-by-side comparison of DeepSeek R1 vs. OpenAI O1 for Finance | Hacker News Reader

China won A side-by-side comparison of DeepSeek R1 vs. OpenAI O1 for Finance

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35 pointsaustin-starks20 comments

I find the narrative that Chinese researchers are stealing AI technology from the US very weird indeed. I have been working in AI for more than 30 years and in the last 15 years almost every major paper on the topic has had at least one Chinese author. In 2018 I went to conference to Florence and 60% of the speakers were Chinese. They sent their students to every lab in the world to train them and to advance in the field as much as they could. And today it is paying off. Also, if you watch the video that was released by OpenAI for the O1 presentation, almost no researchers in the team was American. Most of them were either European or Asian. So yeah!!! The US is number 1 in AI, but without much of local players. It reminds me of the British football championship, which is one of the best in Europe, but where the national team is not much of a powerhouse.

Well see the track each nation is following:

"A Bill to Kill the Education Department Is Already Filed" - https://www.rounds.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/returning_educat...

"China unveils plan to build 'strong education nation' by 2035" - https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/china-unveils-202...

As long as the US has H1B visas, everything will be fine...

It's very rare that H1B visas are real experts in their field. That is why some of the biggest companies with most H1B visas are the Infosys and Tatas of the world...

Why is a private company with fewer than 200 employees "China"/"the Chinese"?

Or, why isn't OpenAI "America"/"the Americans"?

Also, wasn't DeepSeek founded by a hedge fund that was specializing exactly in these kinds of financial operations? Perhaps their training data is just way more finance focused than OpenAI because of that?

OpenAI is stereotypically (modern/contemporary) American. There's the glorification of the founder(s), the mediocre and overhyped product, the weird talks and keynotes given by the leader(s) that are both delusional and hype generating, the insane valuations, topped off with enough drama to keep the news cycle focused on them. The American dream, or something. It's bizarre and not seen that often outside of the US.

I don't see why it wouldn't be "American", and I think it goes without saying that it is.

It matters because of the ridiculous regulations imposed by the US on China. Even despite them, they've built a better model.

I HIGHLY doubt it was built for these type of operations.

That is how most Westerners refer to things from China, or things done or made by Chinese people.

Sadly, that sort of rhetoric is usually used negatively.

If you meet someone really backwards, they'll say anything involving something remotely Asian, "Chinese".

Because the Chinese government has its hands in everything that happens in china….

I mostly agree but the DeepSeek LLM I think is separate from their quant finance operations. It's open source and not particularly finance focused.

It is really fun and sarcastic to watch all this happening. U.S. Gov. tried to block China from accessing GPU resources very hardly to stop their AI development, but actually helped China to take a leap on developing efficient and more cost-effective LLM model with constraint GPU access.

I couldn't agree more. China has: * weaker GPUs * a smaller model * started with nothing

And now they're building better, faster, and cheaper models at a fraction of the cost. It's hilarious and exciting.

Speaking of sarcasm, and thinking about your argument, should we start selling them cutting edge GPUs to slow down their research?

I doubt you ur GPU sanctions have had much of an influence one way or the other. They can get their resources from third countries even if they can’t get them directly from the USA. I wonder if the USA will eventually try to lock down higher end NVIDIA GPUs and prevent export all together.

And then "China" (which is actually a bunch of super generous folks at DeepSeek) decides to release it all back to the US under a permissive MIT license.

They could've just exposed an API and kept the model to themselves but they didn't!

They could've not published their research paper, but they did, again and again - and each time they publish they discuss not just the techniques that DO work, but those that don't - saving researchers everywhere from loads of dead ends.

That is pure awesome. Thank you DeepSeek engineers for your gift to humanity.

Do they have models that try to downplay what happened on Tiananmen Square? That would be a sneaky way to shape our future in some way (and no whataboutism, we do it too).

No human is in danger of forgetting Tiananmen Square unless they didn’t know about it in the first place. Details are strewn across the Internet and in book-libraries all over the world. New generations of students and interested kids can easily learn about them.

Additionally it has been shown that making models forget things lobotomizes them, so no SOTA model can ever do that and be SOTA. They might be post-trained into pretending not to know, but the technology fundamentally cannot resist jailbreaking.

Do you have examples of knowledge that has actually become at risk as a result of this one AI model being added to the pile??

No one wants to talk about the amount of catching up the West needs to do in areas of AI and robotics/drones

Facts. OpenAI thought they had a moat, but even with the shittiest of GPUs, China managed to developer a better, faster, and cheaper mode, AND they open-sourced it.

With that being said, Llama 4 will be CRAZY

In some ways the discussion on banning DJI is also a discussion of simultaneously stimulating a few home-grown companies.

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