Hacker News Reader

Comment by wondering | Hacker News Reader

On the 'fake it,till you make it' path,Berlin seems to be right in the 'fake it' part.You guys write about low costs of living,however there are cheaper places in Eastern Europe with better tech talent availability overall.You mention the nightlife and a couple of the clubs are indeed world class,but I'd doubt it that you go there more than 5 times a year.The internet in Germany is borderline third world quality,in Bulgaria and Romania you get some of the fastest internet in the world for a fraction of the price you'd pay in Germany.The women are better than in the UK,but far from the best looking in the world.

What I'm trying to say with this point is,I don't really see the advantage of being in Berlin in the early stages of your business too,when you're just a 3 people shop,busting your asses all day to move things forward

Having written all that,I loved Berlin during my few months stay.

View on HN

You're missing some big points with Berlin. Where to begin... germany has a great social health care system, the economy is booming, it has a world class educational system, relatively crime and corruption free AND compared to what you get it is cheap (maybe not as cheap as Romania, but the benefits outway the costs). If you want to get talented developers germany has something to offer them and their families.

Again,the points were about setting up a very early stage company in Berlin YOURSELF.It wasn't about finding employment.I've been robbed only in Western Europe,Berlin included and not even once have been victim of a crime in Eastern Europe for 18 years.So there you go :)

okay, but once you get beyond a 2 or 3 man team and want to attract experienced devs and expand or get investing Berlin has a lot. Its centrally located in Europe, you can jump to Warsaw, Paris, London, all quickly, plus the points I made above. I've never been to Romania so I don't know how international and networked the scene is there for comparison. You mention it being cheaper but its not all about being cheap though, the plus is in berlin its relatively inexpensive for the quality and connections you get.

Sorry, to hear you got robbed! I've only lived in countries with high corruption levels (in the gov't), so germany is kind of a breath of fresh air even though its not perfect - I doubt anywhere is.

>The internet in Germany is borderline third world quality

that may be true for rural Germany but I'm writing this from a 100 MBbit cable connection which costs me 40 EUR. You can also get 50 Mbit DSL for 35 EUR p.m. (both including a telephone flatrate)

In eastern berlin I have a DSL connection that cannot go beyond 6Mbit.. So there.

Do your homework before moving.

It is widely known that Telekom had problems with certain areas and that is why you make a "Verfügbarkeitsprüfung" before even looking further at renting something. ;)

For probably half the price in Romania and Bulgaria,you can get Gbit internet connection...not to mention that when you start out,you aren't forced with most providers to sign long ass contracts and on the next day your internet is up and running.If you ever have issues,they'll sort it out in hours.

Again,loved Berlin,it's just I always see some guys hyping it without being able to back up their points,so I'm calling their statements out.

And how many people need a gigabit internet connection at home or in the office?

Plus if you know you are not ready to move into something long term, then you simply move to a space where you can rent this.

>The women are better than in the UK,but far from the best looking in the world.

Woo, casual misogyny \o/

>The internet in Germany is borderline third world quality

Germany, the completely authentic sub-Saharan information drought experience...

>but I'd doubt it that you go there more than 5 times a year.

Culture's about more than clubbing.

>however there are cheaper places in Eastern Europe with better tech talent availability overall.

1 City vs. half a continent. Good comparison.

Germany, the completely authentic sub-Saharan information drought experience...

What's your sarcasm supposed to imply here? If the internet's not great, the internet's not great. Having recently gotten out of doing research in distributed systems I actually know the average German DSL rates. It's mixed. I'm sure that you would be on the low end if you lived in one of the older buildings with poor wiring.

Culture's about more than clubbing.

He didn't mention anything about culture, he was talking about nightlife. And if he cares mostly about clubbing, that's perfectly fine.

1 City vs. half a continent. Good comparison.

One city in Germany vs. a bunch of cities in Eastern Europe. It may be more useful if he gave an actual city to compare it with, like Budapest, but it's definitely a valid comparison.

I think the selling point here is ability to find tech talent and meet investors and prospective customers. For the moment money are in the UK, but all things considered they can move to Germany. And the action will follow along.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com