Hacker News Reader

Comment by jedimastert | Hacker News Reader

I'm really curious and somewhat worried about what the economic effect of this is going to be. There are a number of legitimate small businesses that saw a lot of, if not all of, their business and customer base through TikTok. Business that just will not be able to make the move to somewhere else.

I personally know musicians, actors, and artists that got a lot of work through TikTok. People who actually create things, and people who just used the app to make ends meet who probably aren't going to make ends meet this month

View on HN

There's nothing inherently special about TikTok. It just happens to be the hot social media platform right now. There were plenty before it and there will be plenty after it. There will be a short period of adjustment and eventually everyone will move on to something else. People aren't going to stop listening to music or buying things.

Are you sure about this? I've heard many many times that tiktok is uniquely good at discovery for new businesses.

yeah, tiktok really was (is?) something special because unlike other platforms, their algorithm really increased people's reach out beyond their own community.

youtube shorts and instagram reels seem like they do the same thing on the surface, but they're so much more focused on showing you content that they are certain you'll like, and from people in your network or people who you normally watch. they're a whole lot more focused on keeping people in their existing content silos.

It's the exact reason the platform economy has gotten such a bad rep over the years; drawing people in, taking a (disproportionate) slice of the pie, and providing no guarantees for a sustained income upon disruption.

That would be a very good reason why a corporate influence dominated government would want to shut them down.

Because TikTok is where the hip young demographic is. If they all move to say Instagram Reels en masse then Instagram will be the platform that is uniquely good for discovery among that audience.

And let's not pretend that TikTok is filled to the brim with high quality products and small businesses. Yes there may be a couple of feel good stories about a local pizza place or small band that got their big break because of TikTok, but 99.9% of the advertising there is for the same junk/scam products that are on every other influencer-driven app.

How many times has YouTube recommended a your next video something with zero comments and maybe 10 views.

I cannot count how many times minute I’ve been the first to see or comment on a TikTok video.

It let small creators be shown to lots of people in a way no other platform does.

YouTube does this for me relatively frequently.

Genuinely glad to hear it. I almost always get something I’ve already seen before when I let it auto-play.

i don't know if it does it on auto play, i typically see a "rising video" in a top slot on the homepage. i think its also based on what it thinks you might like so not everyone may get them.

I explicitly disabled YouTube’s and extra layers of tracking. Ironically, it should still be able to track off my upvoted and playlists, it just doesn’t, unless it’s playing on my TV and then suddenly it can again and that’s when I sometimes (though only hours and hours later) get new stuff.

if you don't save your watch history, yeah, it probably doesn't bother using you for this feature

Maybe I should allow YT to save my watch history, then. I have found it frustrating that it refuses to use any of the other indicators (upvotes, downvotes, messages said back and forth, channels I’m subscribed to and their general type of content, etc) to curate my algorithm; but you know.

a well curated (pruned of anything you don't like) watch history is essential to getting a good youtube experience. it's pretty much the only signal that drives recommendations.

… why do I need to delete something, that’s frustrating :( I don’t want to need to log out and turn off my ad blockers to watch something weird or abnormal on YouTube… I pay for premium for a reason :(

there's a pause watch history button on the history page or incognito mode or just open it in an incognito window

I think in 2024, Youtube changed the algo for the front page. Now there is almost always one video in the top two rows with tiny amounts of views. I think it came about when there were lots of complaints about discovery of niche/new stuff.

Yeah, like the sibling comments I can confirm that this is a core part of the YT algorithm now and has been so for at least a year.

If YouTube never shows people new videos then how do new videos get views?

New videos and “new videos from someone that’s never been seen before” or “who I’ve never seen before” are very different things.

Lately I've noticed this more frequently with Shorts. It brings about an interesting dilemma because I know for the algorithm to work and benefit creators, people need to watch videos with few views. But I also don't want to spend my time to figure out if a video is worth watching for the benefit of the algorithm.

To your point, TikTok is filled with absolute trash.

For example, there’s a company called “Cerebrum IQ” which scams people out of hundreds of dollars for fake IQ tests. We are painfully aware of this issue because we own cerebrum.com, and we receive at least 100 furious support requests per day from people who have been charged $80.00+ for a subscription they never agreed to, and they somehow confuse us with “Cerebrum IQ”.

They get most of their users from TikTok ads.

We’ve reported them to TikTok many times, with no action taken. Meta at least restricted their ability to advertise.

Reels doesn't provide a true alternative because it's not about features and functionality it's about culture. The culture on Meta's Reels is really not it. And it's not just the user base but also the way the app is managed, and the algorithm.

TikTok's algorithm was amazing, as was the community.

You can't just recreate communities. They're alive, organic, fragile things.

Having used both exclusively for warhammer and blood bowl content the instagram algorithm has been horrible in my very anecdotal experience. It keeps pushing content I have absolutly no interest in, where as TikTok only pushes warhammer and blood bowl content + adds.

This is a typical HN "marketing is stupid" post. TikTok organic and paid are some of the best drivers of leads and sales for businesses, same like FB and Google are as well.

Handwaving TT away as "another social media platform" is like comparing Friendster or MySpace with the ad machine that FB has built. There are countless businesses that will be impacted by this.

I would be happy if all social media was wiped out tomorrow. The eagerness of advertisers to throw money at these platforms frankly sickens me. So many of the internet's current ills originate in how social media platforms operate.

I don't give two shits how many leads these platforms drive, just like I don't care how many farmers the tobacco industry employs.

Indeed, let them eat cake!

their algorithm was inherently special imo. as well as their ad service. instagram seems like the biggest available replacement but it is so offputting for me subjectively with it's worse algorithm and increased and ill-matches ad placement.

some of the fediverse alternatives seem appealing but have less content.

i'm sure something will replace it if the ban remains in place but at the moment there's nothing nearly as good for me

But that's not the point. There's nothing inherently special about Facebook either. But the disruption is expensive and many would argue unnecessary.

Companies had 4 years, and more recently, 4 months of notice. Theres two other doom scrolling platforms to choose from.

I think people overestimate how much local businesses relied on it, sure a few were booming making "me too" content (looking at you pressure washing companies). But you will still find the goods and services you need.

And now you won't have dozens of bad temu ad's "OH I feel bad for whoever bought this vacuum yesterday because now its 57% off!!!"

My cousin worked at a place where he would stream for 8 hours a day on tiktok and sell trading card packs and other collectables. I guess it was a bit like home shopping network. But his streams were kinda goofy and playful. I didn't really understand who the customers were. I guess some people found him entertaining and liked what he was selling.

So he's going to get a job now?

“Entertainment isn’t a real job” is a cool and normal opinion to have, and it’s usually held by people that are a blast to be around

It generally is. Many successful entertainers say they can’t believe they are paid to do what they do.

“You play the guitar on the MTV // That ain’t workin’, that’s the way you do it // Money for nothing and your chicks for free”

My friend who is bartender downstairs from my condo is a singer in a band. They are active on TikTok, Facebook, and Instagram.

Don't worry it will be reversed by the end of the week.

How? It's a law passed by Congress with support from both parties. Trump can delay the enforcement, but who knows what will happen after he is gone? Is there any guarantee that Apple, Google, or any companies providing services to TikTok won't face massive fines after Trump leaves?

The executive branch enforces laws. If there is no plan to enforce then it doesn't matter.

Also, unblocked as of now. Told ya.

I'm more concerned if our domestic economy can face that much hardship at the whims of a foriegn app. Seems like requiring divesting was the right call. Thankfully the bill includes provisions to require divestment much earlier on.

They had plenty of time to figure this out.

There are other properties to pivot to. ByteDance had the chance to sell, the access to data that even credit bureaus would want is too much for a foreign adversary.

Are there? Instagram Reels and YouTube Shorts are awful in comparison to the TikTok experience. Red Note is funny, but not really a replacement. Nobody is going to go to Snap.

We utilize every platform equally. TikTok organically grew at least 5x the followership for our business, meanwhile Meta gouges us for advertising to be seen at all and we see worse results and interactions there.

No, these options are not truly equal, and many businesses will suffer.

This wasn’t a sudden thing. The law was passed 9 months ago.

Did nothing to India with its 1B+ users when it was banned there 4 years ago. They just either used a VPN or just moved on.

While I disagree with the ban, I'd rather have a sensible fine just like the ones for Meta, Google (YouTube) and others. At one point it also might have temporarily saved someone's chronic addiction to the platform, then they'll just find another platform to get hooked on.

But for now nature is healing.

Indian users are very well versed in and used to circumventing government bans. It's a different audience

American are the chicken with golden egg, you don't want to lose them. They have the biggest ad profile value.

Indian on contrary are cheap, their profile are worth close to nothing.

I think national security might be more important than couple of small entertainment businesses.

I know think of the poor starving only fans entrepreneurs - i mean small business owners. How ever will they pay for college now?

Why do you bash people who have found a way to make an income? We all know tech ain't hiring after everyone was told to 'learn to code'. What else is there to lead a middle class lifestyle?

Good luck if you ever have daughters.

You didn't actually answer the question.

You should never be fully reliant on a single corporate platform if you make a living selling goods or services.

You can be fully aware of this and still have issues building up your platform elsewhere.

The ban of TikTok will have resounding effects even if people are utilizing the alternatives. I've seen far too many people who haven't used TikTok and the alternatives for their business, or are not business owners at all, declare their opinions as facts when they have no actual experience in this space.

I'm not saying this explicitly includes you, I don't make presumptions about your experience in this space.

Regardless, the parent is correct. If you're reliant on a single platform, for whatever reasons, you're vulnerable to being fucked over by that platform. Practically speaking, how is TT being banned different than being arbitrarily banned from TT?

And we put PayPal and Google on blast every time they ban a creator because they are more than one of many, they’re the main place everyone goes.

No, we don't. Most of the people affected end up just moving on. It's only a few rare instances where someone has enough of an audience to 'put them on blast'.

That's because most of the users are there. Now they will go somewhere else, and you can utilize whatever becomes the next big platform.

Which will be impossible if people stop using cash.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com