The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry
spectrum.ieee.org
spectrum.ieee.org
But that’s a good thing. I own a Toyota Corolla hybrid myself, and hybrids are one of those things that I can say I’ve completely changed my mind about. I used to dislike the idea of hybrids, because I assumed that the overall system complexity must be higher than either an ICE, or an EV. And I’m a sucker for simple systems, so I thought it’s either EV, or nothing.
Then I looked into how hybrids work. Specifically Toyota hybrids. And came away totally amazed. It’s an amazing system, and much simpler than a traditional ICE car. It doesn’t really have a gearbox, or a clutch, or a starter. The engine is a normal atmospheric engine, so no turbines, overcompression, and the issues that come with it. Furthermore, the engine is typically configured to use the Atkinson cycle, which puts less stress on it. And, the engine has a chain drive, so no belts to change, and by design gets stressed a lot less than in a traditional ICE, because the stop-start load is carried by the electric motor. Also, it can’t really have trouble starting in cold weather, much like an EV. All of that boils down to crazy reliability.
I’m at a point where if I’m looking for a car that uses fuel, it’s only cars that use the Toyota hybrid tech (or similar) that I’m looking at. At the moment it’s just Toyota, Lexus, most Ford hybrids (but not all).
Other companies have hybrids that are liable to my original concerns about massively increased complexity. As an example, VW hybrids have an electric motor within their DSG gearbox. So you have all the complexity of their modern ICEs (turbines, DSG, whatnot) plus additional hybrid related complexity.
The Hyundai felt like driving a regular automatic, so it would occasionally lunge awkwardly and spin the engine in situations where Toyotas switch to EV mode.
Sure it had better fuel economy, but I can't stand having a car not react immediately to my input or make noise when it shouldn't.
But yes, in that the power transmission is variable (e-CVT, right?), and that sounds a bit weird. You’ve spent so much time hearing how the engine gets louder with acceleration that it feels weird when the engine behaves slightly differently.
But again, that doesn’t bother me enough to buy a less reliable system.
Actually every vehicle I've driven was CVT/e-CVT. 14 Corolla, 18 RAV4, 21 Highlander hybrid and 24 Integra. All super reliable. I'd still say CVT bothers me and I love it every time I get to rent a vehicle with traditional automatic.
The computer has an idea of "At this low RPM the engine is most efficient, at this high RPM it produces maximum horsepower". So if you floor it, the computer in either a CVT or a hybrid will bring the engine to full power and it will just sit there as the car accelerates.
The engine is getting loaded up and putting out more torque, and the throttle is opening, but it isn't really revving. In mine it does slowly climb from maybe 4,000 to 5,000 RPM, but it doesn't do the "rrrrRRRRRR... rrrrrrrRRRRR..." like a transmission with fixed gear ratios.
Anyway revs do go up over a certain speed, but you need to be on the Autobahn to legally test it.
I'm spoiled from years of Priuses now, and driving gas cars, even fancy and expensive ones, feels bizarrely primitive. The lag between the pedal and the response, and the complex relationship between the input and the response, feels antiquated and arcane.
Also at least once I almost went "woah, horsie" as the car lunged forward because I tapped the accelerator a moment after it shifted to a lower gear without me noticing.
It used to be even worse. I had an opportunity to drive a 2005 BMW 7 series in a city where the speed limit was 30km/h. Unfortunately the gearbox was from a time way before traffic calming etc. went mainstream, so it couldn't decide which gear to pick. I ended up switching to manual gear selection mode.
I haven't felt that since I've been driving my CVT ICE for so long.
Then again, a coworker told me the CVT is likely to break before 100,000 miles. So.... thinking of buying a Prius. I love Priuses.
Also, YouTube helps. Search for “Power Split Device” or “e-CVT”.
Regarding other hybrid tech, it’s a bit of a crapshoot. I basically use ChatGPT with search enabled to have sources, and then ask how the system works. It’s never in the marketing materials, I guess most don’t care.
They require much more active computer control to work though so they aren't logically simpler in my opinion, but mechanical simplicity is what makes the biggest difference.
There are certainly better more approachable sources though so I leave this as an option as the info is there, but can take a moment to understand.
Four axis, like a square pinned at the corners if you know the relative position of two elements you know the position of the others. This is the basis for most traditional machines.
Five axis is floppy. And usually avoided traditionally.
The synergy drive is a five axis machine mechanically. But has two electric motor generators. By varying the speed of the motors you can control the gear ratio of the mechanical path. Since the motor speeds are indignantly variable so is the mechanical path. You end up with continuously variable transmission with a mechanical power path and an electric one in parallel. And it doesn't suck like pure mechanical ones.
Totally genius.
Highly recommended!
My takeaway was the same as some of the other posters here, the system is an engineering tour de force. Simpler than the gas version, proven reliability, and efficiency not too far off the theoretical limit of gas-burning drive trains.
Seeing how simple the whole mechanism is, I totally get why the empirical reliability is so good.
Not to mention that the lecturer shows and explains things very clearly.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeFzfl0Q8rQUOHwFNOMTu...
He goes into the practicalities of owning/maintaining/repairing as well as the engineering.
A caveat though. I used to have a Škoda Fabia with a chain drive, and I did end up changing it, as it started making the tell-tale sound when stop-go.
In the context of hybrids though, I fully expect that chain to last the lifetime of the engine. The engine is under significantly less load than in a traditional ICE, so less stress on the chain. Also, for 100k mileage, the motor-hours that the engine has worked are less than in an ICE due to the engine regularly being off.
On all of our other cars (Toyota), the belts needed to be serviced at X miles, but it was actually a cheap and quick procedure.
After 2017 Ford started using belts to drive the oil pump in F-150 engines (and possibly other Ecoboost engines). I have seen 100k teardowns of failed engines and the belt is not looking good at that point. If the belt breaks the engine is toast by the time the operator realizes what is going on.
My Land Cruiser has a timing belt. I replace it every 90k miles per Toyota's specifications. My Tundra has the same engine, except that it has a timing chain. I've never bothered to replace the timing chain.
A timing chain is preferable as long as it isn't something like a Jaguar/Land Rover. The chain in those doesn't matter because they use plastic tensioners that eventually become brittle at crack/fail.
Chains were very common in American cars and trucks for decades and they did need replaced after 150k-200k miles. I replaced the one in my 1993 Ford 5.0 at about 150k hard miles and it made a dramatic difference in performance (solved knocking/preignition on hills).
Don't forget the Mazda CX-50 Hybrid that was just released. Using the Toyota Hybrid from the RAV4 with the elegance and beauty of Mazda design.
:hide_the_pain:
I have no idea what Toyota’s strategy with the Sienna is.
A mechanical CVT with belts and pulleys with changing diameters is even worse.
What the hybrids (e-CVT ones) have though is basically a planetary gear set, where the gears are put together at the factory, and stay there for the life of the car.
To me that’s not a gearbox. At least not in the traditional sense. Transmission sure.
This page has a neat PSD simulation to help grok what happens:
I think it only works from a computer though!
My goal is usually to drive my vehicle all the way into the ground, and I guess that’s what happened to my Prius except it happened around if not before 150,000 miles.
I could see how there could be situations when someone tries to sell you into changing all the cells, even when that’s not necessary.
I have a Prius that's at 100k right now. Repairing the battery is within my abilities but I'm concerned that if one or two cells fail, more will be right behind it.
I think a pure EV with a small range extender not connected to the drivetrain mechanically- like the BMW i3 REX is the way to go. It’s even simpler and lighter than the Prius system, allowing for a much larger battery and more powerful electric motor.
Doing things 'weird' usually makes them cheaper and less crowded/faster as well- as a result of less demand.
Overall the Boxster is a surprisingly practical car- it was very cheap (cheaper than an old Prius of the same age) but now appreciating in value with age, can use a 3+ carpool lane with 2 people, is tiny so easy to park anywhere, and it is actually very reliable and low maintenance.
At a certain level of utility/space, cars just stop being that fun. Well, until you get to the vans, those are fun in their own weird way.
There are some fun weird vans. I've always loved the Toyota HiAce, Mitsubishi Delica, and other strange Japanese minvans with weird features like built in karaoke machines, beverage coolers, tiny diesel engines, and real truck 4x4 systems. Also love the old VW vanagons.
They used to run (tongue in cheek) ads for the Boxster with the slogan "The more kids you have, the more practical it becomes" and that it fits "Two child seats. Up front." There's some truth to that- if you have a large family you will likely have multiple cars, it can still make sense for one of them to just take two people for 1 on 1 activities.
When I was in Ireland for work, I saw that a huge fraction of the farmers use MKIV TDIs for their farm work vehicles- they're all over the place pulling huge trailers full of livestock and hay, and still using half the fuel of most cars that are unloaded.
As somewhat of an old timer (turning 43), I remember the techie population seemed to overlap a lot with the car enthusiast population a long time ago. Nearly everyone at my first job (small startup) was a car nerd. A lot of engineering and tech goes into cars after all.
Somewhere along the way a lot of techies became very anti-car.
There are plenty of other things to tinker with.
Having driven a lot in my youth, it's just not something I enjoy regardless. I'd rather spend the time and resources on other things. Even taking a longer bike ride to the store is preferred because it's exercise, almost everyone on the trail nods or waves back, and I know my choice is better for everyone in the community.
I assure you there is no bait- it’s an example of things that would make an everyday chore fun to me, and needs no justification. I would suggest you do what would make it fun to you.
So I'd rather get the prius-like ergonomics and comfort.
I use Linux, EMacs with vim keybindings and a dark color palette. Coding this way makes me feel good, I like the aesthetics. If they tried to force me to use Windows, and an IDE with a light color palette, I’d seriously consider quitting. It’s totally irrational, but it is what it is :D
Of course cars suck in cities, but they are great in rural areas.
Or, you could reengineer your too-short life so you waste less time driving.
It’s fine if you like driving and want to have a nice car - connoisseurs abound in all fields. But for 99% of people it’s not an issue worth optimizing for.
Bold claim. Sitting in traffic in manual or auto ICE is a nightmare compared to a Tesla.
That is, a series hybrid, like a diesel locomotive?
The range extender basically gives you protection from range anxiety, but isn't used at all in normal use of the vehicle. On the i3, it only starts the engine when the battery is nearly empty, but some people do software mods to be able to use the vehicle as a true series hybrid, and run the engine continuously for doing long distance freeway driving without stopping to charge.
And grants you maintenance anxiety.
Where I live charging infrastructure is good enough that a 300-400km range EV is completely sufficient. Range extenders is a niche solution.
I do agree about the Prius, though. It feels like driving a dishwasher.
For me, the hybrid is fun to drive. I've never experienced any unresponsive inputs or lack of feedback in performance. The fun comes in at trying to keep the gas engine off as much as possible -- without going becoming a hypermiler and irritating other drivers -- both in city and long distance driving.
I regularly drive both a 2011 Prius and a 2023 BMW X1 “mild hybrid”, I’ve also test driven an iX1 electric and X3 “real” hybrid recently (all practical family cars).
In order of increasing accelerator-input-to-actually-moving (at low speed) delay:
iX1 electric (best) Prius X3 hybrid X1 mild hybrid (worst, dangerously bad)
That is to say, every time I get into the 14 year old Prius I think “wow this is nippy” after having driven the 2 year old X1, which we’ve nicknamed “the lag wagon”.
Toyota really nailed the driving ergonomics of the gen2 Prius, given the constraints. Yes, it’s a slow to accelerate at high speeds, but it’s still really nice drive around town.
If only Toyota made bunch of toy models for THS and built couple 2-door hybrids so that more people would get it. I suppose it's a case of innovator's dilemma, but it's so unfortunate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eC5FFoCq4s ("It Turns Out, Hybrids Are Really Hard On Engines")
https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a34667856/the-updat...
https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-automobiles/releases/relea...
I also have now an hybrid Corolla (the station wagon version the US does not get. Because we all now Station wagons are the superior form of car.)
- The Prius is as fast 0-60 (~7 seconds)
- The Prius has nearly the same top speed (~115 mph)
- The Prius is 4x(!) as fuel-efficient (57mpg vs. 12-16mpg)
- The Prius has all the modern stuff: air conditioning, antilock brakes, airbags, crumple zones, information display screen, backup camera, proximity alerts, etc. etc.
- Adjusted for inflation, the Prius costs almost exactly the same---------
Amen to that though! I agree that the new gen Prius looks really sleek! I tried EVs but the range and lack of after-market parts was really limiting, so I've been fairly happy with the Prius Prime.
- Terrible in snow and ice
- No way to defrost your windshield, unless you're already driving
- Poor rear window visibility
Are they worse than most front-drive cars? (And what about compared with a Trans Am?)
> No way to defrost your windshield, unless you're already driving
I've wondered about that. The Prius still gets its cabin heating from the ICE?
> Poor rear window visibility
Agree completely.
Man I miss my prius, I sold it when gas was under $2...
I have a 2022 Prius Prime, and I am moderately sure with the car on and in park I can press the front window defrost button, and the ICE will turn on and start blowing hot air on the front window.
Also, while parked and plugged in at home, I can use the remote A/C button to start heating the cabin and front windshield while clearing off snow and clearing the driveway, and will be powered from my house. I'm not sure if this also works without being plugged in.
New Englander here. I've owned two Priuses (2004 and 2010) and both have been surprisingly able to handle winter weather quite well. Not as good as my Outback, but in light to medium conditions and driven by an experienced winter driver they performed admirably.
The older one made it through a major blizzard in rural road and interstate driving across 4 states, albeit at a reduced rate of speed (45 mph, which drove up the MPG to 52, a record for that car).
We still drive the 2010 model. I'm hoping that Subaru will get its act together on hybrid by the time we have to retire the Prius, but I would definitely get another Toyoya hybrid.
https://www.motor1.com/news/696979/subaru-forester-hybrid-to...
I don’t know what gave you that idea, unless this is a complaint about FWD vs AWD. They do fine around here in snow and ice.
Snow and ice performance is primarily (by a wide margin) about the tires. Next is the diffs and/or traction control for keeping both wheels moving when one starts slipping.
A Prius on snow tires does about as well as any other common FWD car.
Snow tires are great on all FWD and are probably way cheaper than buying a new AWD car.
- Press Start button twice.
- Push accelerator to the floor twice.
- Push and hold brake pedal and shift into Neutral then release brake pedal.
- Push accelerator to the floor twice.
- Push and hold brake pedal and shift into Park then release brake pedal.
- Push accelerator to the floor twice.
- Start car.
You should see the Traction Control warning light stay on to signal it’s deactivated. It will automatically reactivate when the car is restarted.
To defrost, you can just turn the car on, switch out of EV mode, and turn on the defroster. It works like every other car.
The rear window visibility is not the best. I do agree there.
- it drives really nice with plenty of power
- the "gearshift" (not that it is one, but that part of the UI) is nonintuitive
- the interior looks smaller than it is, due to massive A-pillars and little to no rearward visibility
- it looks much better than past Priuses, but the rear door handles single-handedly put back the "dork factor"
None of that would have mattered that much, but the dealbreaker: Trunk space. I mean, space to load stuff when there are already 4 people in the car so you can't just fold down the back seat. That trunk floor is high. Folded it up and what's underneath? A styrofoam spacer matrix! WTF? Why not a spare tire instead (you don't get one)? I can imagine an ugly hack, tearing all that out, just to get a bit more trunk space but really? My only guess is that the Prius Prime's extra battery goes here, and they don't want to have it have less trunk space than the regular Prius.
We are (by choice) a one-car family and we have two kids. When we travel we need a certain amount of trunk space, and the Prius doesn't have it. Aside from that, the Prime would have been lovely - enough battery to do your around-town driving entirely electrically! I never even thought of the "no heat" angle.
I hear you. I got a 2022 Prius Prime and I was disappointed with the smaller trunk space compared with the 2010(ish) Prius I had before, but I still went with it. However, my understanding is that the newer models somehow have even smaller trunk space space. At least that space under the trunk floor is filled with batteries in my case.
While I'm happy enough with my purchase, I suspect I won't be getting a Prius in the future. If I want a PHEV, I might look at the Rav4 Prime, but I think I'm more likely to look for a full EV when the time comes.
Also, you're not getting a bride to leave her husband at the altar if you pull up alongside in a Prius. Just sayin'.
- Does not look as cool
Hilarious to think this is modern stuff. This stuff is 2-3 decades old.
I think Toyota deserves as much credit as Apple for its “it just works” ethos. The way they design the technology to be seamless and work so well behind the scenes is remarkable. Additionally, many Toyota mechanics consider the Prius to be the most reliable car Toyota makes. This often surprises people because of the perceived complexity of hybrids, but in reality, they are elegantly engineered and surprisingly simple.
I’ll continue to hypermile for fun anyway lol
Congrats on the EV though. I really want one, but it’s just not practical for the 400+ mile trips we regularly need to make throughout the year.
I was hit with a bad oil gasket that causes the engine to burn oil. It’s so much work to replace their solution is to replace the entire engine. My solution is to keep putting oil in it. I was told by the dealer this is common over 70k miles.
The steering controls (heat, volume, cruise) stopped working pretty early on. It was well over $1k to fix, mostly labor. Apparently the connection they use is prone to failure.
Leaves me wondering if my next car will be a Toyota. Maybe if they adopted Apple CarPlay.
That being said, batteries are still good and I’ve been pretty impressed how low the maintenance has been.
We had to replace the inverter a few years ago (apparently there was a software update to prevent this failure, but we didn't have it), but even when that broke the car was still driveable, just the ICE engine was running all the time.
The biggest issue I've had is with brakes. Three times now the rear pads have got rusty and I've had to replace both the pads and rotors. My theory is that as they are hardly used, they don't get hot enough to dry out any moisture. Last year I rebuild the rear calipers, so let's see if that fairs any better.
I think the issues might be described in this article: https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2019/toyota-brake-booster...
The second generation showed that they could produce a sedan with high reliability, a decent sized passenger cabin, high crash test ratings, and very little compromises over a regular car except speed and sell it at a massive scale with incredible gas mileage, lower maintenance costs and great reliability.
I think it also showed that you could build a smaller car, throw in all the technology features and young people would buy it where previously, manufacturers would only put the latest and greatest features on their largest vehicles. For example, if you wanted the latest and greatest features from Mercedes, you would have to buy the S class, so even if you wanted a smaller more efficient car, if you were an early adopter, you had to buy the largest model. I think the Prius was a point where people realized that the youngest people wanted these tech features but they didn’t want a giant car.
I think a better comparison is to the Italians.
Stellantis bought up a bunch of iconic brands when they got Chrysler and then integrated a bunch of new technology from Fiat. Since then, they’ve focused on creature comforts and margin expansion, but neglected everything else.
They recently realized their sales projections are headed for a cliff and unceremoniously fired their CEO.
VDA is pressuring for HVO100 bs. Mercedes just pulled back on the electric only strategy. I guess they figured that most of the added value is with the batteries and being deeply integrated there and thats not really their cup of tea, so far at least.
There where Taycans for 30k$ which was a real great deal if your the second buyer and not the first.
On the other hand the id family looks ok, facelift good. The a6 is pricey at 100k but is the first really capable german highway ev, not as premature as the eqs…
The technology (e.g. heat pump, carbon fiber/aluminum body), user interface and fuel economy (not range) of my old i3 are all competitive with the 2022-2024 EVs I’ve driven.
Unless they somehow regressed 10 years, the only obvious problem with the new BMW EVs is that none offer a third row.
The i8 was also a special snowflake (hybrid supercar with wing doors and questionable transmission), but what about the i4, i7 and iX?
They all look extremely competitive.
My main gripe is no 800V, it would be a sane travel car with that.
No frunk to store the possibly wet and dirty ac cable. Yes they exist on the aftermarket but the car is a premium product, one shouldn't have to deal with this.
My personal EV tech goal/dream is 400km range in between 20-80% SOC, chargeable in <20 minutes. Ideally as a worst case ie cold outside -5C, 140kmh avg. And the whole package affordable: <50k new, ideally even <30k. Let's hope we'll see this kind of volume model sooner rather than later. My hope is that it could significantly improve the QOL for many people in cities worldwide and help further build out renewables by offering grid stabilization while not in use (this dream unfortunately requires ~100kwh, which will result in a >2t vehicle so tire rub will probably increase slightly, though i think its a worthwile trade off). So i guess my last gripe is price, yes its a premium product but the production complexity and price should go down vs BEVs...
I own a 2024 Prius Prime (PHEV) and the setup works great. No range anxiety, no special charging infra (I just plug in on a normal 120v overnight). I got the car in Feb 24 and maybe pumped gas a total of 8 times? If I didn't make two longer trips, it would have been 6.
But also, the power output is pretty great and an upgrade over the hybrid only model.
It feels like the sweet spot for most Americans and doesn't require any real lifestyle change.
Big shame is that dealers aren't necessarily charging them on the lot. So if you test drive one, you might only feel the hybrid and not the EV mode.
On the other hand, two days a week I make a drive that's just beyond EV range and the hybrid just kicks in afterwards.
You can't pick a car with a small battery though as that will cause problems on long trips. Something around 80 kWh should be enough for most people.
>> the EV, when built well
Home charging at 120v for an EV is only practical for the most minimal & predictable use. And I'll add "as long as you don't want to sell it used..."
Why would there be an issue with selling it used when doing this?
Various regulations set targets which gives manufacturers incentives to hit sales targets. This leads to discounts or great lease deals just before certain dates if targets aren't met through standard prices.
The opposite will occur when Trump cancels the credit.
That sucks tremendously (on top of other tesla-related suck like extremely expensive OEM replacement parts that nobody else can service), and considering we talk about Switzerland here (and expensive well developed part of it), other countries are not that better off if at all.
As a backup, non-critical second car, why not if you feel like an early adopter and paying >40k for a function a used 5k car can perform even better. Main family car? No thank you, maybe for half the cost but probably even that's too much in this decade.
I just got two installed for $800, and the charger itself is $420 each. Even if a circuit panel had to be upgraded and some wire needed to be run, surely it is only a couple thousand extra at most.
And if electric vehicles pencil out in the US to equal cost of gas cars including oil changes and all that, then surely they do in Europe with their higher gas costs.
With how active European governments are on legislation to curb carbon emissions, I assumed the proposition of a new electric vehicle to a new gas vehicle would be at least as good as the US (over the lifetime of the car, higher initial cost for EV, but lower maintenance costs).
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/europe...
Of course, this only applies to people with a home with a space to park and charge their car, and whose everyday destinations are mostly within an hour.
Edit: looks like small diesel cars are still available in Europe, so taking those as the base option, I can see how an EV would be expensive. This option doesn’t exist in the US, though.
https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1bfhpnl/does_it_ma...
But even with 9km/h I am surprised that's not enough, does she really drive more than 108km a day?
(this is not to take away from her experience, I am just surprised)
They're slow (3-7kW), can't be installed everywhere, there are not enough if everyone wants to charge at the same time, and some areas still don't have them, but plug it in when you arrive and you should be fine to go in the morning. It's a good idea and more places should adopt it.
In your case it seems that a pure EV would be fine? Maybe not one with a small battery, but 300-400 miles of range isn't that uncommon these days.
In any case, the important thing is that it works well for you.
The added complexity / part count is definitely a downside, though.
Edit: er, now I'm not sure about my second statement: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42748610
With this said, other reports of batteries going bad on old Prius, I haven't read much about them being unreliable, so it should be fine while the car is fairly new.
I've read ICEs can have problems if you go too long without running them. Will the Prime's software automatically run the ICE on occasion to keep it in good shape?
You can manually control it if you want and I do it once in a while when I need more acceleration since max power is delivered with both drivetrains.
Our family has an older Hybrid Camry from around 2010 and it will destroy 12V batteries with too much local driving and parking. A typical regular ICE does better in the same conditions.
From the behavior, I assume it's because they only charged the 12V via a weak alternator when the ICE runs, rather than also keeping it charged via DC-DC conversion from the larger electric traction power system.
I just returned from a 21 day trip and my 12v was dead because I left the Prius off the charger. It's fine as long as it's on the charger (my guess is it trickle charges it), but if you leave it off the charger, the traction battery doesn't maintain the 12v.
We resorted to installing a big master cutoff switch on the negative battery terminal in the trunk of the Camry. So if there is no plan to use the car again in the next few days, we electrically isolate the battery.
Then, we have to go through a longer "boot up" process to reactivate the car for its next use. Use the mechanical key to open the trunk, restore power, then enter the cabin and go through multiple cycles with the START button to let all the computers power back up...
I'm super happy I didn't get the Prius. Spec wise the Tesla is superior. Driving our other ice car is less enjoyable for me now. I use 120v but I work from home so it works. I still like the Prius/RAV4 prime but at its price point and limited availability I just don't see the value over Tesla.
Oh, and mileage is 30-34 mpg, at least when its not the middle of midwest winter.
I do wish they'd release their PHEV vans over here (https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/41970489.html), which also look like something out of Blade Runner.
Ironically, if you're looking forward to an Electric SUV, you're more likely to find that in India where macho SUV culture is massive.
I've owned three Toyotas because they've always seemed to be the lowest total-cost-of-ownership option, being especially good in the compact and midsize segments. American manufacturers are trying as hard as possible to abandon those segments. So what will we be left with? I don't want a giant, luxury sports car that costs $50k+.
I wouldn’t worry about that anymore.
I agree it was somewhat confusing taking a "sliding" century as to mean century, should've said something else.
Tesla's 800hp super cars aren't green and never were. They consume lithium to such a degree that they are, maybe even worse in the long run.
Using 800 horses to transport one human never could be efficient, no matter the technology.
Hybrids (well phevs) can deliver huge % of electrification and efficiency while transitioning older, dumber, and more conservative drivers to EVs, home charging, without having to plan
As to the article, I don't think they were influential enough. This obviously wouldn't have happened with the Bush administration, but maybe in some parallel world where Gore when the election, we might have gotten a mandate that all consumer vehicles needed to be hybrids or phevs within 10 years.
The amount of gas that would have saved, The amount of development it would had on batteries and electric drivetrains, would have further paved the way for decarbonization.
Why semis did not become hybrids is beyond me. The electric drivetrain provides so much more torque and smooth acceleration, while providing obviously regenerative braking.
Toyota was mocked in recent years for not going head-first into EVs. As the EVs are becoming less popular and the geopolitics of battery and raw materials escalates, Toyota is having the last laugh.
If you can cover the 50 mile typical commute round trip range on grid electric and then switch to the ICE for longer trips, that's a lot more practical. It's like having the best of both worlds.
Yes, you sacrifice in weight and complexity, but Toyota has absolutely mastered this design and their reliability is great.
A friend had bought a used Prius and loved it, so I did some research and decided it would be a good choice. Thus I ended up with a car that has four wheels and two engines.
(It only has around 48K miles, have replaced brakes once and regular battery twice, otherwise no problems. And routinely get at least 40mpg.)
Family Guy got the meaning of "Prius--and the type of self-righteous person who drove it--exactly right.
Let's say you are right: nobody really cares about the Prius price or technical specs and bought it to be seen. Now imagine someone buying something other than a Prius, say a BMW, or a Lexus, or even a lower end car like a Corolla who might dither over the color or trim package. How much ire do you have for those people being vain in caring what impression their car makes?
If you don't don't care about the non-prius scenario, it means you don't really care about the vanity aspect of car purchasing decision. Inspect what is really driving your resentment.
That’s the definition of a hybrid.
We have a separate phrase for a hybrid that you can plug in. It’s called a “plug in hybrid”.
I don’t think it seriously confused the market at all.
You only put one energy in, the other source is gravity and recycled kinetic.
Besides hybrid means two motors gas and electric. Not two inputs.
A brother recently transferred title of "most dangerous driver in the family" from me to somebody else... so I've got that going for me (plus: have never been pulled over in my re-vamped hybrid lifestyle).
Can you smell the 50mpg+ smug?
I think they meant "as low as".