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Comment by hb-robo | Hacker News Reader

The kids flocking to another Chinese app just to avoid using Reels, Shorts, or whatever abomination is on X continues to be so funny to me. Looks like a long game of whack a mole starting.

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Any parent (and even us non-parents who've spent a lot of time around kids) know that the best way to get teenagers to stop doing something, is to start doing it yourself. If you forbid them to do something, it's basically inviting them to try their hardest to do it anyways.

There are tons of people over 30, 40, 50 even over 90 on TikTok.

That's true, but proportionally they're a vast minority.

The algorithm segregates based on physical features, which can make sure they don't see one another with frequency.

It's known to use facial recognition to boost videos of "beautiful people".

https://www.dexerto.com/tiktok/tiktoks-algorithm-prioritizes...

Not true at all. I see people of all ages.

It is likely targetted at specific demographics.

12-year-olds probably aren't getting the same 10-minute videos of auto insurance adjusters taking exceptional calls that I am. But they might if they're precocious.

I'd be very surprised if anyone on TikTok is getting 10 minute videos on anything.

I'd still be surprised, but less so, I'd auto insurance adjusters are taking the time to make short form content aimed at the 40+ audience.

https://www.tiktok.com/@claimslife1

Lawyers are getting in on it too. It's a major form of marketing for them now.

- Law by Mike (10M subs): https://www.youtube.com/shorts/meJA30cglvo

- Legal Eagle (3.5M subs): https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lgT4iZ9BYF8

- Ugo Lord (1.9M subs): https://www.youtube.com/shorts/I77J6n72Oto

- Attorney Tom (500k subs): https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kgLTqx2UFUk

- Mike Rafi (300k subs): https://www.youtube.com/shorts/znQgK6God2w

- CEO Lawyer (24k subs): https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RzqBiKLZNy4

Law by Mike puts some pretty incredible production value into their videos.

Sharing YouTube links because TikTok web isn't great and the links will likely stop working in a few days.

I watch at least 2-3 10 minute videos on TikTok daily, and a large number of 5+ minute videos! There's an amazing amount of good content, and once the algorithm hones in on what you care about it gets surfaced for you.

Can't say I have insurance adjusters on my FYP, but I think that speaks to the power of the algorithm's targeting far more than it does the lack of content.

Are those people also making posts like "I'd rather get shot by Mao than use Instagram Threads/Reels" right now?

Yeah… People just hate being told what they’re not allowed to do.

It's a very American attitude to rebel against the tyranny of the government, after all. Something about taxation without representation?

37 here and: yes.

Sure. People older than 30 also dislike when the government tries to censor their access to some media.

PG just wrote a blog, it shows the history of how students in the 1960s holding Mao's Red Book (pun intended) was the origin of the "woke" thing.

PG is full of shit. "Woke" originated within the black activist community and culturally goes back as far as the 1930s. It got adopted and became mainstream within the white liberal progressive community through the popularity of black music artists and social media in the late 20th century. It has absolutely nothing to do with Mao's Red Book or communism.

OK forget the "woke" thing here, let me rephrase, does the "1960s Berkeley protests" have a connection with

- Mao's Red Book, and

- the BLM/metoo/woke thing in the 2020s?

Maybe you could tell me what connection you want me to see?

This is how I got mine to stop saying slay, preppy and sigma. The look of horror and cringe on their face when I say crap like "skibidi ohio rizz" in front of them and their friends, is a chef's kiss.

This is exactly why I’ve started slinging gen alpha lingo at our daughters: even doing it jokingly makes them cringe enough to stop using it themselves.

Slay. No Cap, Fanum Tax that Skibidi.

Interesting that most of this "gen alpha" slang are phrases used by Black Americans for years

I do this to my son as well and I have to admit it is unreasonably effective.

Under a million kids moving over to RedNote for a week or 2 means nothing. There is no whack a mole. Tiktok algo is the sauce, nothing else has the sauce. People enjoyed the sauce.

Xiaohongshu has better sauce than youtube shorts or instagram reels.

Using Chinese social media is cool now.

For a 1MM kids, not for 169MM others. They will go where there is the least friction which is likely a Meta or Alphabet product.

>They will go where there is the least friction which is likely a Meta or Alphabet product.

Fortunately, I think you're wrong about this. American children will be saying mandarin catchphrases before they start using Instagram Reels.

Just not if you're gay.

By all accounts, RedNote is hugely gay, with many people talking about how it's full of gay Chinese folks looking to connect with people.

Misinformation. I've seen plenty of gay people on there. Including myself and my partner.

I have see Chinese users who state that they are gay or bisexual right on their profile page, too.

"the sauce" is for the audience to figure out. The sauce was disgusting to me, but that didn't matter to those 100m consumers.

And yes, this begs the question of "when does something become a matter of national security". 10 million? A million moving over before the day of reckoning isn't a small thing.

the sauce = tiktok's algorithm. The audience doesn't figure that out, the company delivering the videos to you does. So far, no one else seems to have even come close. GenZ are proactively against Zuck, so that's even a bigger hole for Reels to overcome. Rednote doesn't have the algo people want and its interface isn't in English. It cost zilch for those kids to make a RedNote account. They are literally making it a meme. They wont be there in 2 months when no one else is there, and the joke is over. RedNote will have even more heavy handed moderation than TikTok as it is currently sharing its userbase with Chinese citizens. RedNote is not an answer to any of the underlying wants or desires of the Tiktok community except for a extreme minority of the TikTok userbase who are rallying against the US govt/Meta. Personally, I think the ban is within the power of the US government to do but do recognize the very real concerns and view of those who think the government shouldn't have done this. The incoming administration is free to seek to undo this if they want, but it can and should take an act of legislation to undo.

> Tiktok algo is the sauce, nothing else has the sauce.

Tiktok algo is nothing special: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/05/business/media/tiktok-alg...

The volume of interaction data from good interface design and huge user base is the core of the success.

Counterpoint: Reels, YT Shorts

Reels and YT Shorts are definitely worse, but I would attribute that to not having the same content to even show and not having the same amount of data because of a much smaller audience than to having an inferior recommendation system.

Rednote's algorithm is significantly better than reels

> Tiktok algo is the sauce

What makes you think the Bytedance chefs who cooked the sauce wont join the Redbook company? Their HQ were both located in China anyway.

Even if that could occur, they don't have time to hire, design and implement it before their window of capturing the wave is over. RedNote is in a right place wrong time situation that would be in a worse position that Tiktok was in for scrutiny since we already had the house the data here legal battle with Bytedance.

The big one is called RedNote, and it's actually fairly well done.

Oh, wasn't meant at any dig in terms of quality, I don't believe in that kind of characterization. Besides, ostensibly, Chinese developers have been much more successful in this space and seem to deliver better products. I just wouldn't know myself as I stay off of shortform video platforms.

The irony of Americans flocking to a CCP-approved app whose Chinese name is translated to "little red book" is just a bit too on-the-nose. For those who don't know, Little Red Book is also the literature spread during the Cultural Revolution in China that was a collection of quotes and sayings by Chairman Mao.

There's gotta be a joke in there about the communists selling the capitalists the rope the capitalists eventually hang themselves with. But, I digress.

The meme I'm seeing everywhere is that with so many Americans joining RedNote, Americans are discovering how much Chinese people are paying for healthcare, food or property, and Chinese people are discovering things like 40 hour work weeks and actually having a holiday from time to time - so now the question is whether US or China bans it first.

Does China not have holidays? Us isn't great there with a total of 7 federally recognized holidays.

The 666 workweek(6 days a week 6 am till 6pm) is definitely real in some companies and it's a big problem with work culture especially in tech. But in general I'm sure they do holidays.

China also has 7 main federally recognized holidays. Although, one interesting thing they do is "weekend shifting" where they move the official work days near, e.g. the Spring Festival so that people get a full week of holiday (at the cost of a longer workweek or a one-day weekend right before/after it): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_China#Weeke...

The Red Note nonsense is just a meme, somewhat fittingly. First, because the only place you see coverage of all the "kids flocking" is... on TikTok itself. It's always a red (heh) flag when your source for big important events comes only from the affected parties.

But secondly because Red Note is subject to exactly the same regulation as TikTok, for exactly the same reason. There's no protection or loophole there, this app is just a district court injunction away from a ban too. Literally no one cares, they just love to meme.

https://www.xiaohongshu.com

Am I missing something obvious, or is that only available in one language? How do American teenagers use that?

Don't get me wrong, I consumed American media and played American video games before I understood English, so clicking around eventually led you down some path.

But isn't most of that content meant to be consumed by people who understand the language said content is made with?

You install the app, and can set the language.

While this is true, the translation is quite poor and not all parts of the app are translated.

It's good enough.

Given the slop people are dealing with, I'm sure some people feel right at home.

Mostly just lots of translation. Lots of American and Chinese users are putting translations directly into posts and comments to make it easier for others.

The funny this is American teens may start learning Mandarin as a result of this ill-advised ban, which is exactly what the US government doesn't want!

xswl

If this motivates any significant portion of the populace to learn one of the hardest languages to learn (In the West), I'd see that as a justification alone.

> Am I missing something obvious, or is that only available in one language? How do American teenagers use that?

It's to spite the United States Government. And it's hilarious.

https://social.coop/@eb/113829092915144918

They're detecting Americans now somehow and setting the language to English by default; I didn't have to change the language. The translation looks pretty rushed but it's enough to navigate the app. The community guidelines are, notably, still only in Mandarin.

The posts are largely subtitled in both Chinese and English regardless of the spoken language. Comments are often in both languages, but if not you can click Translate.

Can confirm. I had no idea about RedNote till my 18yo niece sent me a link to download it.

It isn't really whack-a-mole though, because despite the media coverage there is no "TikTok ban bill." Instead it's a "Hostile nation can't own majority stakes in media companies in the US" bill, and this SCOTUS ruling sets the precedent that can be enforced on as many entities as required.

On a more amusing note the Chinese did NOT expect a bunch of Americans to show up on RedNote, and they're not thrilled so far. It seems that sharing details of how to organize labor unions, protest against your government, 3D print weapons, and so on wasn't what they were hoping for either. There's allegedly talk of them siloing off the new joins from abroad.

So how big does Rednote need to be to "majority stakes in media companies in the US"? I don't like this ruling at all, but it feels very American to see another looming threat and say "well, I'll just wait until it gets too big to deal with it".

It qualifies already, but I really doubt it's going to take off for many reasons. It isn't TikTok, the CCP has a much heavier hand there (ask the kids who ran into a 48 hour review period for their posts), and frankly I don't think the CCP is going to appreciate a bunch of mostly young, leftist teens sharing their ideas with Chinese people. The reaction to "Here's how you can organize a union/3D print a gun" has been hilariously predictable.

I think it's a troubling sign that American cultural decline is much broader and deeper than Trumpism.

Kids are born into a world where the last generation is already essentially locked into lifetime servitude, the world is burning, and the "adults in the room" are a circus. How could they not indulge in alternatives? What is there to look forward to, identify with, or love about this place?

Culture thrives when the people are able to live meaningful lives.

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