Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report | Hacker News Reader

Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report

wormwoodiana.blogspot.com

93 pointsfogus32 comments

The proliferation of charity and community bookshops is substantially the product of tax policy. Commercial property is taxed at ~50% of the nominal rental value, but charities are substantially or wholly exempt from this tax. Importantly, this tax is owed regardless of whether the property is occupied; for a commercial landlord, it is therefore preferable to lease a unit to a charity at a peppercorn rent if the unit is expected to remain vacant for some time. This has had a profound effect on the makeup of retail tenants, particularly in small towns with high vacancy rates, which some argue amounts to a harmful market distortion.

can you elucidate on if this was un- or intended consequence, and "harmful market distortion"?

Yes, perhaps there's an argument that having charity shops is better for the area overall than having too many vacant shop fronts. But if that's the case, why not cut business rates for all, rather than for this arbitrary group?

I don't see how encouraging charities can be seen as harmful?

It would be good if it was extended to organisations like CIC however.

Too many charity shops is the sign of a "dead" high street in the UK. It's odd when you think about it because each charity shop is literally unique and you would think worth travelling for, as opposed to the chains that sell the same stuff everywhere. But that's just the way it is. There's a kind of snowball effect caused by too many charity shops that has been noted for decades.

It's unfair competition. Also nobody wants a high street filled with endless charity shops and poundlands.

> It's unfair competition.

It's a charity, how is giving them an advantage over chains that put their profits into the pockets of billionaires a bad thing?

Secondhand bookshops are not usually owned by billionaires. Neither are the things charity shops sell in general.

There is a loss to customers because instead of knowledgeable owners, charity shops are run by volunteers of varying quality.

I know of one case (through a volunteer at a charity shop) in which someone threw out a book of 19th century prints because they "threw out all the old rubbish". That would not happen in a commercial shop. I think its less likely to happen now that there are charity bookshops that tend to take the more valuable books, but I would not say it never happens.

Most importantly, the ability to avoid paying rates reduces the incentive to let the shops out, reducing supply and raising rents. IN many cases owners would rather have empty premises than let at lower rents and removing a cost of doing so makes this more attractive. The higher rents this causes that give chains such a big advantage over the small businesses they have largely replaced.

The problem is in many small towns in the UK (like mine) the charity shops outnumbed the non-charity shops, and oftent he competitions isn't billionaires, it is locals who would like to start a coffee shop (for example), but can't compete against "multinational" charity shops.

A lot of these shops are basically just big closets full of some hoarders' junk. It's marginally better than an empty storefront, but not by much.

Funny enough an acquaintance used to volunteer at one and his main income (aside from the dole) was finding the good stuff, taking it, and selling it on ebay (he was delighted when someone's old school Game Boy with original pokemon cartridges came in one day...).

It probably isn't good for the economy that large proportion of retailers are charity shops with very thin margins, despite the fact that they're being subsidised in terms of business rates and receive most of their stock and a lot of their labour for free. A charity shop is better than a vacant unit, but it generates very little value, even for the charity.

Local authorities want to see more diverse and vibrant high streets, but they're economically reliant on charity shops - local government collects and spends business rates, but central government funds the rates relief that charity shops receive. They simply can't afford to offer rate relief to other tenants who might use that space to build a more valuable business, because the tax system has distorted everyone's incentives.

In many towns, charity shops are visibly crowding out other kinds of retail. The relief for charities props up landlords and local authorities, taking away the urgency to reform the system and take steps towards a more sustainable future for declining high streets.

The new government are finally talking about fundamentally reforming the business rates system, but it's happening at least a decade later than it should have done.

https://www.cbi.org.uk/articles/the-path-to-business-rates-r...

There is some rate relief for small businesses, but everything you wrote is still true and happening.

You clearly know what you are talking about, but I don't think you're representing the situation fairly. There are all kind of ways in which businesses may be exempt or partly relieved of commercial property rates. The particularly important one is the the 'small business rate relief', which exempts businesses whose property has a rateable value of less than £15,000 - that's basically all high street shops outside of London.

If by 'other kinds of retail' you mean retail chains or department stores, then yes, the current tax regime causes them to be disadvantaged. But almost every kind of local high street company (including cafés, jewellers, newsagents, toy shops, and yes, even second-hand bookshops) is helped considerably by these tax breaks - it's not just charity shops.

There are lots of reasons why high street businesses and retail in general are struggling, but I'm confident that business rates aren't one of them.

Independent retailers are squeezed out by charity ahops at the bottom end, and nataional supermarket/coffeeshop/etc chains at the top end. Result is bland identical high streets.

Discouraging business is bad. Obviously Britain is not doing well if you see many towns

The group Turning the Page operates pop-up Carpe Librum stores in space provided by the owners of commercial properties in Washington, DC. In some cases, a building is scheduled for demolition and replacement--the store at 17th between K and L NW had an unusually long run.

Periodically the commercial real estate market sags, and it is some years before it picks up again. An owner can be caught between the end of the leases and the rebuilding. In these cases, a charity bookshop is probably not a bad tenant. It is unlikely to disturb neighboring properties with noise or litter. It will probably not start a fire, as squatters have inadvertently done in a vacant block downtown.

And I really don't think that in a large city this is unlikely to distort the market. I haven't counted the vacant storefronts within five blocks either way of the current Carpe Librum at 14th and I NW, but there are quite a few.

In my country (Australia), charity shops have only a poor book selection and there are no charity book shops. 2nd hand book shops are for profit, although I doubt the profit is very large.

Charity shops benefit the shoppers and the donators, who benefit from how easy it is to get rid of their stuff, compared to the alternatives that are time consuming or difficult.

I ran the number on one that my wife and I would go to in Pennsylvania, and just based on the people I'd see checking out each time I was there, they made decent money.

Their model was, you give us a book, we give you $0.50 off a single book purchase. All books are $1. So if you gave them 25 books, you would get $12.50 in credit, but can only use $0.50 per book you bought. So you still end up giving them a profitable transaction. And most people didn't use credits to buy their books, they went in, and bought 10 books after perusing for an hour or so.

It's such a good concept, I'd like to try it some day in an area where there is enough of a population within an hour that it makes sense.

To be honest, I prefer charity shops to professional shops for 2nd hand books.

That said, I still visit professional shops rather more than I should (it depends on the shop.)

Of course charity shops are cheaper, that's part of the appeal, but I have more success in them because they are less discerning.

Over the years I've acquired a LOT of books, so now I tend to limit myself more. Mostly I now collect science fiction, with an emphasis on work pre 1970. These were made cheap, and are usually in "poor" condition now.

Professional shops won't shelve them, whereas charity shops will, so I have more success there.

This is going to sound bad but another upside to charity shops is that often they misprice their books, so you can get some real bargains.

I'm not sure 'miss priced' is necessarily the case- I think they're priced to move, and obviously there's no cost-of-sales, so its a volume game.

Of course one can find truly valuable stuff, not just books, but I never have...

All mispriced even means here is that it would still move at a much higher price. If the goal was just to make sure everything moves, you could price it all at zero.

I've had a lot more luck with science fiction in professional shops than in charity shops. In the latter I tend to find only mainstream fiction and non-fiction. It's exceedingly rare to find any sci-fi at all. I wish I knew one where people brought it in.

One thing I enjoy is when people get rid of their computer science textbooks. They are sometimes older editions, but can be had for less than 10% of the original price. It's rare, though, so just have to keep going and take the opportunity when it arises.

I think there are 2 factors which affect my success in finding books in charity shops.

what books are sold: I would like to understand the proportion of books sold by genre. Shops have a very high proportion of thrillers and crime novels.

likelihood of donation: Perhaps some fans are more likely to keep books than others. In my donations, thriller & crime books are donated first, I keep my SF.

This leads to a low chance of success in finding science fiction paperback for me. I guess SF (myself included) are just hoarders.....

Just curious what sorts of older books you find in the best condition.

Ie, even when buying a new book today I’d rather pay $1 or $2 more in price on good paper that won’t turn yellow in a few years, but it seems most publishers aim for the lowest common denominator on shitty paper.

I’ve had some general luck with hardbacks being more robust but it’s not always the case.

Just seeing if you had thoughts on book types or publishing houses with the best paper that has lasted over the years.

Nothing specific. Most everything printed that I have since circa 1980s is fine. I expect looking after them matters more than paper quality.

Thats mostly paperback novels.

Stuff that was printed cheap in the 30s and 40s (ie "pulp" fiction) is taking strain now - which is to be expected.

Books I got as a child seem yo be I fine condition, despite a lot of rough handling at my hands, and my kids hands.

A.Z. Fell has a decent bookshop but when I called recently they said: "Fell's Bookshop. We probably don't have what you're looking for and we wouldn't sell it to you if we did."

It sounds like a real life Black Books.

It’s about as real.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Omens

Well that was more positive than I had expected from the title.

It also mentioned, at the end, the trend I'd noticed for schools, supermarkets and others to have places to trade second hand books for free.

Also the trend for free book exchanges in disused phone boxes! My local village has a working phone box, presumably because mobile phone service is lacklustre! It has still become a community book exchange despite being live!. I'm reading one of their books right now actually! One of the classic orange Penguin editions of 'Carry On, Jeeves' by P.G. Wodehouse!

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