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Comment by cgeier | Hacker News Reader

This is huge news for ZFS users (probably mostly those in the hobbyist/home use space, but still). raidz expansion has been one of the most requested features for years.

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I'm not yet familiar with zfs and couldn't find it in the release note: Does expansion only works with disk of the same size? Or is adding are bigger/smaller disks possible or do all disk need to have the same size?

As far as I understand, ZFS doesn't work at all with disks of differing sizes (in the same array). So if you try it, it just finds the size of the smallest disk, and uses that for all disks. So if you put an 8TB drive in an array with a bunch of 10TB drives, they'll all be treated as 8TB drives, and the extra 2TB will be ignored on those disks.

However, if you replace the smallest disk with a new, larger drive, and resilver, then it'll now use the new smallest disk as the baseline, and use that extra space on the other drives.

(Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)

> As far as I understand, ZFS doesn't work at all with disks of differing sizes (in the same array).

This might be misleading, however, it may only be my understanding of word "array".

You can use 2x10TB mirrors as vdev0, and 6x12TB in RAIDZ2 as vdev1 in the same pool/array. You can also stack as many unevenly sized disks as you want in a pool. The actual problem is when you want a different drive topology within a pool or vdev, or you want to mismatch, say, 3 oddly sized drives to create some synthetic redundancy level (2x4TB and 1x8TB to achieve two copies on two disks) like btrfs does/tries to do.

This is the case with any parity based raid, they just hide it or lie to you in various ways. If you have two 6TB dives and two 12TB drives in a single raid-6 array, it is physically impossible to have two drive parity once you exceed 12TB of written capacity. BTRFS and bcachefs can’t magically create more space where none exists on your 6TB drives. They resort to dropping to mirror protection for the excess capacity which you could also do manually with ZFS by giving it partitions instead of the whole drive.

IIRC, you could always replace drives in a raidset with larger devices. When the last drive is replaced, then the new space is recognized.

This new operation seems somewhat more sophisticated.

You need to buy the same exact drive with the same capacity and speed. Your raidz vdev be as small and as slow as your smallest and slowest drive.

btrfs and the new bcachefs can do RAID with mixed drives, but I can’t trust either of them with my data yet.

> You need to buy the same exact drive

AFAIK you can add larger and faster drives, you will just not get any benefits from it.

You can get read speed benefits with faster drives, but your writes will be limited by your slowest.

It doesn't have to be the same exact drive. Mixing drives from different manufacturers (with the same capacity) is often used to prevent correlated failure. ZFS is not using the whole disk, so different disks can be mixed, because the disk often have varying capacity.

Just have backups. I used btrfs and zfs for different purposes. Never had any lost data or downtime with btrfs since 2016. I only use raid 0 and raid 1 and compression. Btrfs does not havr a hungry ram requirement.

Neither does zfs, that’s a widely repeated red herring from people trying to do dedup in the very early days, and people who misunderstood how it used ram to do caching.

Tbh the idea of keeping backups defeats the purpose of using RAIDZ (especially RAIDZ3). I don’t want to buy an LTO drive, so if I backup, it’s either buying more HDDs or S3 Glacier ($$$). I like RAIDZ so I don’t have to buy so many drives. I guess it protects you if your house burns down, but how many people do offsite backups for their personal files? And dormant, unpowered HDDs die a lot faster than live, powered HDDs.

Yes, seriously handling your data is expensive. I am talking about buying new hardrives.

You can run raid-z across partitions to utilize the full drive just like synology does with their “hybrid raid” - you just shouldn’t.

You can use different sized disks, but RAID-Z will truncate the space it uses to the lowest common denominator. If you increase the lowest common denominator, RAID-Z should auto-expand to use the additional space. All parity RAID technologies truncate members to the lowest common denominator, rather than just ZFS.

That's not entirely true, Unraid has mechanisms for unbalanced disks, but they come at a high cost in terms of usability by standard workloads.

Unraid is not a RAID technology:

> Unraid saves data to individual drives rather than spreading single files out over multiple drives

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unraid#Software-defined_NAS

At least, it is not one in the sense of the original RAID paper that coined the term:

https://web.mit.edu/6.033/2015/wwwdocs/papers/Patterson88.pd...

Is it definitely the LCD? Given drive of size 15 and 20 the LCD would be 1, no? I had assumed it would just use the size of the smallest drive on every drive (so 15+20->15+15=30). When I first read your comment I was thinking of GCF but even that would be fairly inefficient (GCF(15,20) = 5, so 15+20->5+5=10).

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