The Typical Man Disgusts the Typical Woman
betonit.ai
betonit.ai
> The OkCupid results are far from unique. But the graphs are stark enough to inspire mutual anger.
Presumably they're using the OKCupid graphs because the very illustrative of topic being discussed.
Why? We have real world data and can use inductive reasoning to estimate what the "typical woman" thinks of the "typical man." You're right to point out that this has flaws, but that doesn't mean it's not meaningful. If nothing else, it's a far better estimate than just guessing. That is, unless you have some other evidence that points in another direction.
There are no doubt differences between women on Okcupid and women in the general dating population. But in your example, we have a clear reason for believing that wealth is correlated with spending habits. If there is a reason why you believe Okcupid users should be as correlated with poor evaluation of the typical man, then it is at least not clear to me. Once again, using this data is likely far better than taking a random guess at how women in general evaluate the typical man.
Handy doesn't come across in dating apps, so you need to get out there and show your strengths.
> It is also not fun being with someone who is not into you physically.
I don't actually believe this. Our prime of physical attraction only lasts 20 years give or take; but is then followed by another ~40 years of very limited attraction no matter who you are. Even for the healthiest and most attractive, it is completely inevitable that there will be a time without physical attraction.
My sweet summer child, young women often have kids with guys who are handsome losers. I don't just mean accidents either. They do it on purpose because the guy looks good or they just really want a kid quick.
I still get PTSD seeing my friends swipe Tinder. So cruel.
But is it possible that modern lifestyle (diet, inactivity, etc) simply disrupts male sexual signaling more than it disrupts female sexual signaling? That would be a simpler explanation, in a way, and it seems plausible.
But apparently I am unusual? And it's not like I need people to be attractive to like them - I'm just talking about sexual attractiveness. Also, I think I'm pretty average-looking on par, below-average nowadays, so I don't think my standards for others are being inflated by my self-perception.
This warps men's perception of women in both selecting a wife; and in assessing the beauty of their wife in the long run especially after children. It warps women meanwhile in viewing themselves as less attractive, or viewing the 80th percentile of women as though it were the 40th percentile.
Comparison is the thief of joy; especially when human beings are involved.
Which is a bit ironic given that the charts seem to show that men are assessing women reasonable, while women are suffering from exactly the problem of unreasonable expectations that the quote describes.
I do not mean to say that any guy can get a partner easily. I mean to say that I do not see any of that mutual anger and hate this article writes about.
Maybe because they think less in abstract "leagues" and sometimes discuss stuff like "compatibility".
As I read the article, I would NOT ever want to date or go out with a guy that talks like that. Overwhelming majority of men I met were not like the author of this article. And I believe that it is not the case of them just hiding it. Plus, they tend to use more logic in their reasoning.
Nice example is the sentence of "the typical man pesters you" ... the typical men are not actually pestering. Some men are occasionally pestering and annoying. The typical average guy around is perfectly fine to be around regardless of whether they currently have attraction for me or not. Or "The problem is that almost all women think they’re out of his league.". What I certainly don't do is to put myself into a hierarchy, then men into hierarchy and then trying to find visual equal.
Look, I am getting ick about whoever wrote this article, but not because they would look badly or because they hygiene would be bad. It is just that as I am reading the article, some red flag in my brain is blinking and telling me "steer away, you do not want that in your home".
That is not obvious at all. First, there is nothing in the article that would suggest there is an issue with his look.
Second, I have no idea how author looks like and as I wrote, reading made red flags in my head blink. This guy wont listen to what I actually say and wont be interested in me as a person. I would be a plaything for him, but he would get offended if I reciprocated the attitude. Dangerous to risk one night stand and no go for relationship. To be honest, he gives off Elliot Roger vibes - not the violent part but the way he thinks.
> And he need not look worse than the average man or worse than the women he is pursuing to get a lot of rejection either.
There is more to that. He also needs ability to guess which woman will one night stand with him and just do not do that thing. He is not looking for long term relationship, that part is clear. But he is not honest with himself about this either.
Like I said, I just do not think in hierarchies like that. This is a projection. And exactly the kind of guy who will get angry when he sees what he considers visually uneven couple and see it as huge unfairness no matter which one of the two he looks down at.
> to break free of the white lies people say to avoid telling you basic stuff like maybe you need to do
The author is not breaking off anything. The write up is internally inconsistent (He seems to claim that average men is disgustingly unhygienic but actually issue is women care about looks too much and don't care about character? Which one is it?). The data he has do not even measure disgust, but I guess he thinks 6% of women are disgusting and projects that on women who rated men low in attractiveness.
Lol the fact that the article exists is essentially proof that the author is not successful with women. Do you think guys who are happy with their love lives and think they look good are happy summarizing research that suggests women are too picky?
>Second, I have no idea how author looks like and as I wrote, reading made red flags in my head blink. This guy wont listen to what I actually say and wont be interested in me as a person. I would be a plaything for him, but he would get offended if I reciprocated the attitude. Dangerous to risk one night stand and no go for relationship. To be honest, he gives off Elliot Roger vibes - not the violent part but the way he thinks.
I kind of get why you would think like this. Guys (and girls) have been known to be upset at rejection, and maybe ruminating on why one is failing is a sign of that. At the same time, not everyone who is upset at their outcomes is a bad person like you seem to believe. Just because Rogers thought many of these thoughts doesn't mean everyone who thinks these thoughts is one of those guys or dangerous at all. The man is just unhappy and trying to make sense of it, and you can't blame his failure on the fact that he is trying to make sense of it and had some unflattering observations (in general, anyway).
In the same spirit as you calling this guy like Elliot Rogers, I could call any woman who complains that guys only want sex a "Lorena Bobbitt" lol
>There is more to that. He also needs ability to guess which woman will one night stand with him and just do not do that thing. He is not looking for long term relationship, that part is clear. But he is not honest with himself about this either.
I doubt this guy is the type that can pull one-night stands. I think complaining about women's unreasonable looks preferences suggests that he isn't looking for one night stands. In my experience, most guys would rather not deal with one-night stands. Crazy, right? You wouldn't know it from talking to women. Almost like the men they date are not representative of the population as a whole. To be fair, my friend group probably isn't either.
>Like I said, I just do not think in hierarchies like that. This is a projection. And exactly the kind of guy who will get angry when he sees what he considers visually uneven couple and see it as huge unfairness no matter which one of the two he looks down at.
OK so maybe you're right, and this explains why women are so bad at rating men. But they seem to agree on which ones are really attractive at the high end. Maybe the ones that aren't so attractive as that are more like puzzle pieces, which again suggests that women are picky.
Visually uneven couples piss off even attractive people who have no dating problems. I remember a guy actually getting visually very irritated when he realized that he was hitting on my girlfriend right in front of me. I know it was because he thought he looked better than me, and he did actually. But she wasn't interested in a guy bagging groceries lol.
>The author is not breaking off anything. The write up is internally inconsistent (He seems to claim that average men is disgustingly unhygienic but actually issue is women care about looks too much and don't care about character? Which one is it?).
He is somewhat confused but he is on the right track. Women don't necessarily find most men disgusting, they just aren't interested. It's a real problem for normal (average) men trying to date. The confusion comes from many lies we get told in society. Nobody wants to tell you that you're too fat and that even if you lost weight your odds wouldn't be great. Nobody wants to tell you that you're just too short for 95% of women. So they say some stuff like "Just be funny" or "Just shower bro" lol. The movies make romance look easy too. So we become adults and get shocked to no end at how depraved the "sweet" other sex is, and how hard it is to find basic success in romance.
2.) My issue with writeup is not being upset with rejection. It is going off own wild imagination over what other people think. It is making internally inconsistent claims, projecting a lot, it is making conclusions unsupported by data.
I do not know how the guy looks like, but reading him writing about relationships makes me nope out fast.
3.) He looks for one night stands, because his only gauge of what he looks in women are ... looks. That works only for one night stands and nothing else. If you want anything else, you need to be compatible in more areas. If your evaluation of dating situation starts and ends with leagues, you are going for one night stands, whether consciously or not.
4.) The claim that women are bad at rating men is unsupported. All we see is that they do not end up with gaussian curve, so what? I honestly did not seen women running around complaining about lack of good looking men around.
> Visually uneven couples piss off even attractive people who have no dating problems. [...] I know it was because he thought he looked better than me, and he did actually.
How do you know what he thought? How do you know he has no dating problems? I would claim that visually uneven couples piss off selected minority of the people who just cant accept that other people are not like them.
> So they say some stuff like "Just be funny" or "Just shower bro" lol.
If people tell someone just shower, it is either insult or strong hit they should shower more regardless of which gender is around.
> Nobody wants to tell you that you're just too short for 95% of women.
Like, disability level short? Cause I can tell you, smaller guys around me have partners. Whatever statistical disadvantage there is, it is at worst similar to disadvantage of women with small breasts. Yes, men prefer large breasts and that does not mean women with small breasts are unable to find partners everything else being equal.
You don't have to have 100% certainty here to make an educated guess. You were willing to assume he's so likely to be a psycho killer that you couldn't have him in your house, but you won't admit the obvious thing that is there is a 99.9% chance that the guy writing that "most women find most men disgusting, here is data" thinks he is unattractive and probably is.
>It is making internally inconsistent claims, projecting a lot, it is making conclusions unsupported by data.
He is literally posting data and trying to reason about it. Like I said, society lies to us to conceal the fact that women are as vain as men if not more. I can't tell you how many friends have told me looks don't matter, and how many movies and TV shows had that message. But nothing made sense until I realized that the message is a fantasy, or at best an admonition to give people a chance even when they have shortcomings.
>He looks for one night stands, because his only gauge of what he looks in women are ... looks. That works only for one night stands and nothing else. If you want anything else, you need to be compatible in more areas. If your evaluation of dating situation starts and ends with leagues, you are going for one night stands, whether consciously or not.
Just because he is complaining about a looks issue does not mean he is after one night stands. It's just the one thing that you can pinpoint easily and generalize. Most guys think like "I want a girl who is nice to me and not too hard on the eyes, and maybe has a few things in common but I don't care what." The guys that can get one night stands don't sit around and ruminate about data showing that women are picky. They just go get laid, and have actual options if they want something serious.
>The claim that women are bad at rating men is unsupported. All we see is that they do not end up with gaussian curve, so what?
The support is this: we expect looks are roughly distributed on a bell curve. So either it isn't that way and 80% of men actually are repulsive, or looks in men are distributed that way. One final possibility is that attraction is the thing that is actually distributed that way (as in every woman is looking for something overly specific even in appearances, and they make exceptions for the most stereotypically attractive).
>I honestly did not seen women running around complaining about lack of good looking men around.
No but what you see in spades is women complaining that certain guys won't return their calls, or stop cheating, or commit to them. So they often find their good looking men and can only secure them for recreational use, meanwhile average guys are getting ghosted on their 2 online dating matches per month.
>How do you know what he thought? How do you know he has no dating problems? I would claim that visually uneven couples piss off selected minority of the people who just cant accept that other people are not like them.
I know what he thought because he issued a loud sigh or "pfft" when I turned up, and I hadn't even said anything to him. I'm not an idiot. I could see he was into the girl I was with and pissed off that I was with her. Maybe the people who don't like to see visually mismatched couples are in a minority, but it is a much smaller minority of people who will let you know it like that.
>If people tell someone just shower, it is either insult or strong hit they should shower more regardless of which gender is around.
No, this is just some stupid thing that people came up with. Most people won't tell you when your face is dirty or your fly is open. People don't want to give direct or hurtful dating advice, especially when no advice will help. But they also don't want to blow you off obviously. So they come up with meaningless answers like that. It's the social equivalent of saying "there's someone out there for you."
>Like, disability level short? Cause I can tell you, smaller guys around me have partners.
I know there are many shorter guys who have partners. But the fact is that dating as a non-tall guy sucks. I'm definitely not talking about disability-level (I think that's 4'10 by ADA standards, and that is also the threshold for the military). If a guy is under 5'10 these days he definitely isn't having an easy time. Many women (even women as short as 5') set their minimum filters to 6' and often make derogatory comments about short men.
>Whatever statistical disadvantage there is, it is at worst similar to disadvantage of women with small breasts.
That's not how statistics work. I wish I had the odds of success of a woman whose only problem is having small breasts. A woman like that, assuming she isn't fat or messed up in the face, could have hundreds or even thousands of likes on any dating app within a week. Her friends would also hook her up. That isn't a peculiarity of dating apps either. Real-life events turn out very similarly, with too many single guys. Even ugly and obese women get more attention than average guys in 2025, and it's been that way for years now. I have theories about why this happens but they are too long to get into right now.
>Yes, men prefer large breasts and that does not mean women with small breasts are unable to find partners everything else being equal.
I agree. This agrees with everything I've seen and explained above, and also the data in the article.
I'm a 40-year-old man, and started dating my wife when we were 14. As a result, I've never so much as installed a dating app. All of my (very limited) experience with them is a result of sitting with friends while they went through their feed.
There's also the secondary benefits of being on the platform. It's no secret that women get far more validation, offers, and interest for being on dating platforms than men do. For women, just being on a dating platform can provide self-validation, even if there is no interest in selecting a partner at all.
Obviously actual relationships are valuable, but dating apps tend to cater to hook up culture, and for people with friends sex is usually more urgently missing in their life than some degree of companionship. A lot of incels are actually more tilted by the feeling of being worthless/unattractive/unvalidated than the lack of companionship.
This is the wrong conclusion to draw from this data, given its source.
The right conclusion is, at best, "The typical OKCupid male user disgusts the typical OKCupid female user". Men and women use dating apps for different reasons and in different mindsets, and many refuse to use them entirely.
For the most part, the intelligent man prevents problems that devolve into unnecessary altercations for the bad boy.
(fwiw the author Bryan Caplan is an economist and should know better)
Notably I wonder how much things have changed in the past decade, as that data predated the concepts of incels and manospheres.