Ask HN: Am I the only one here who can't stand HN's AI obsession?
I don't need you to convince me I'm wrong. I just want to know if there are other people here that feel the same way. Thank you for commenting thoughtfully!
I don't need you to convince me I'm wrong. I just want to know if there are other people here that feel the same way. Thank you for commenting thoughtfully!
The leadership then hyped up Devin or whatever, only to find the whole workplace in chaos after a few months. All this was done to attract VC money, and now they're hiring for the same position again.
But since the target audience was always technical (although gullible) people, the incentive to make it useful beyond coin purchases never manifested.
But moreso: scalability.
The blockchains that are worth anything don’t scale to the level of total worldwide transactions per second.
I’ve heard “But Lightning!” — sure, so before I can send any money, I have to find a fellow to relay my transactions against.
> I know a few small companies that have legitimately let people go without even having a proper replacement.
In terms of collateral damage, blockchain nonsense is probably still winning, at least for now, though its victims were often at least somewhat complicit in their own destruction.
One glaring example of the difference - you're making an analogy by saying that people were saying "get on board web3 or you'll be left behind". I'm not sure I heard people say it quite this way, but even if they did - what was the causal mechanism they claimed would "leave you behind" exactly? Why would the average user care? Not at all clear.
Whereas, correct or not, there's a very obvious reason to think adopting AI is critical - in SE, for example, it promises drastic changes to how people work and increases in productivity - it's pretty clear why not adopting it is a bad idea.
While LLMs are still new, ML itself is by no means a new or unproven technology. Recommendation engines built on ML are, for better or worse, the backbone of the average person's online experience. Fraud and spam detection, built on ML, are baked into most of our digital utilities (email, payments, etc.) How many apps do you use that involve ETA predictions? Because those are all built on ML. Image recognition, speech-to-text, even the camera on most smartphones--it all relies on ML.
Even looking purely at LLMs, they've reached a point of adoption that blockchain never did. ChatGPT alone reports over 200 million users per week. Google search, possibly the most ubiquitous product in the history of the internet, uses LLMs as a standard part of search.
You may have criticisms of the technology, you may think it is overhyped or that companies are making a mistake by leaning into it, but it's difficult to rationally dismiss it as a purely speculative hype bubble when its usage is so widespread.
There's always has and always will be a "Vulture Culture" on HN that rubs my FSF sensibilities somewhat the wrong way from time to time, but with this latest AI and crypto bubble it really feels like that shared sense of wonderment is being greatly usurped by the vulture crowd to a toxifying degree.
They don't want to grow money in 10 years. They want to make money now. It really hasn't always been this bad.
It was also good to teach that if enough people believe cryptocurrency is a way to invest money, it becomes as legitimate a way to invest money than any other. Also informed me of all the nuances and how naive ideology, even if misplaced and bad at forming the future, and money from illegal activities can become a legitimate investment option and become part of the mainstream where all of its past can be mostly ignored by current cryptocurrency owners. Anyway, right or wrong, that is my current view on it and it was informed by what I chose to read about it on HN.
Even the current flood of AI content I find useful to gradually understand how to use it or not, bring attention around ethical dilemmas, what is the useful for and what is not useful for.
And since I can chose what I read very easily on HN, it doesn’t bother me at all the hype-driven subject of HN submissions.
But I guess it’s just like programming languages: either people rant about them or no one uses them.
- To garner VC money - To drive down wages and make employees more fungible
It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. As long as enough people believe it, that’ll become the new baseline.
"<a well established C/C++ program, existing for many years> written in ruby" (or whatever the language was that week, so replace that with go, rust, etc.)
Besides the exaggeration of the first sentence, I’m actually deadly serious about the rest.
- For competent power users, tiling window managers are better than desktop metaphor WMs
- Is Java finally dead?
- Is my manager a bitchass for not promoting me to the senior role (SF/GOOG/M/24)
- If you don’t use the trackpoint on your Thinkpad your mom’s a hoe
Good morning to all.
With short term flash in the pan hype cycles like that superconductor one, prediction markets astroturfing also seems involved. Basically the more hype you drum up, the more people you can lure into betting on room temperature superconductors, the more money you stand to win when it turns out to be nothing of the sort.
Just like yc, most things will not work out. Some will. You can read about all of them here. The noise around the thing is one of many signals.
We seem to be stuck in a tarpit of reinventing tactics, but there hasn’t been a major strategic shift for over a decade.
I am part of the problem, posting links to the obsessive recreation (not by me) of old arcade machines.
Also, there are startups that failed because the founders decided to ditch Go, Python, or JavaScript for Rust. Now, they can’t hire people, and no one wants to deal with the mess.
now you may have ignored it and not lost money like 90% who joined the hype... but now you have a president bound by support of that very money and they already made promises to clear the way even further for those people.
likewise with AI, even if you ignore it, there are proxy wars happeing with little more reason than to showcase the viability of autonomous robots in trench warfare for the next round of arms sales. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrrXNZyoc8k
What do you expect? Might as well ask an AI to generate that text, same level of information you'll be getting.
Taking the other side, on one hand I can see "AI that can transform a text into an image etc, but otherwise the benefits of so called AI are completely lost on me" but on the other hand AI overtaking biology is kind of an interesting thing.
And you can of course skip the articles.
If you would've asked experts 6 months before chatgpt when we'd have the current capabilities they would've said we're at least 10 years away.
For a whole year prior to ChatGPT, "davinci-instruct-002" was at the level of ChatGPT for most purposes, but applications using OpenAIs models had to be approved, and chat apps were disallowed (as were any completions > 300 tokens).
The competitors of that time (GPT-J, GPT-20b-neo) and early BigScience stuff was behind OpenAI, especially on instruction training. So we didn't see applications until OpenAI changed it's application approval process in November 2022. A good reference for where things were is "Machine Learning Street Talks" 4 hour 2020 GPT-3 video - although it expressed doubt about GPT-3, you can see there through many of the examples that the tech was close to ChatGPT relative to the previous iteration (GPT-2, T5, BERT etc).
However, for experts, it was obvious from about Spring 2021 when GPT-3 started taking off in the research zeitgeist with actual research usage, with loads of tweets and recognition of what it meant for the field (both in terms of impact to grant applications, ongoing projects and the future of language models being decoder only for the reasonable short term).
The real gap in prediction disparity was that most experts, possibly due to a bias towards their funding areas researching BERT etc, totally ignored GPT-2 and assumed encoder architectures or other fields (RNNs etc) were still better paths. Established Researchers* would have predicted GPT-3 was 10 years away in 2018 or 2019 which is funny in hindsight. However, even in 2013 (when I was not a researcher but a student), people in computer vision felt that arbitrary tasks/arbitrary recognition was nigh impossible unless using coding schemes etc (which limited to certain image types anyway)
* And I say this because I was researching in 2019, but I was more optimistic after seeing T5 and GPT-2. The field did not ignore CLIP, but there wasn't much obvious apparent research to be done with CLIP initially. Computer vision was all about semantic segmentation and recognition of disease etc in the 10s.
Even your sibling comment (that is an example of it) reflects almost properly in the end. There’s just nothing to actually do here wrt AI.
I knew this site was notoriously cynical, but the dismissal of such monumental tech advancements is making me reconsider the time I spend here.
I'm a freelancer and all of my clients talk is AI. I think, it's cool tech, but also quite overhyped.
But I get it, AI has become the magic box that the masses of "idea guys" can use to realize "the next big thing". No more meddling with devs or designers.
Whelp, guess we have to wait for the valley of disillusionment.
It’s the new “I have an idea for app, can you build it for me for free?” that clueless friends of friends bust out when they find out you work in “tech”
Well, it's the antidote: "If it's so simple and valuable, build it yourself, ChatGPT et al makes it easier and since it's so simple, you can get to keep all the rewards to yourself :)"
I've got a zealot in my company too. The worst thing is that our customers (healthcare providers) really want to hear this, so it actually helps in marketing, which in turn keeps the hype going.
I will embrace the moment we step into that valley of disillusionment, although I fear the slop will remain.
Instead, it was 99% filled with everyone in my region shilling their ChatGPT wrapper like it was going to change EVERYTHING. There were nearly zero interesting tech or business conversations.
Edit: to more directly address your comment, it's interesting to see which businesses and sectors want to ram through AI with no clear reason and which have no interest in it.
Examples change as desired:
# Filter some topics
# top (title / url)
news.ycombinator.com##tr.athing span.titleline > a:has-text(/(lockchain|coin|202[3-9]$)/):upward(tr)
# bottom (stats / comments)
news.ycombinator.com##tr.athing span.titleline > a:has-text(/(lockchain|coin|202[3-9]$)/):upward(tr) + *
#~-The Best Sausage ASMR Of 2024
This rule would avoid these articles, and GP probably sees the few false positives as an acceptable tradeoff.
The spammy articles won't make the HN front page (at least not with the original title), but there will be a lot of false positives from the HN style of tagging older articles with the publication year.
Jokes aside, my best guess is that parent is trying to hide prediction posts like "What will cryptocurrency look like in 2026?" or something.
I am not a luddite by any means, I constantly keep trying out LLMs in order to see if I am missing anything. I am trying to get some utility from them, but I just can't.
"But you can use them to generate code", no, not really. First of all, why would I want to generate code? Code is a liability, I want less code, not more. Also, code is very expressive, I can say exactly what I want in code much more effectively than I can try to explain in English to an LLM. The LLM always misunderstands and generates garbage, garbage that takes more time for me to read, understand and fix, compared to simply writing it in the first place.
"Ah, but you can generate the boring stuff, boilerplate, stuff like that". I don't write any boilerplate, any repetitive things I automate by pricipled things, like more abstract code or by using my very effective text editor skills. Trivial code is easy to get right, by definition, why would I risk getting it wrong by using an LLM?
I do get some utility out of LLMs by asking questions about stuff I don't know about. The LLM's answers are almost always wrong, but they can push me in the right direction by informing me of things I am not aware of. This is not really a feature of LLMs, it's just that Google has become garbage at searching. So yes, LLMs are useful, but only by accident.
Generative "art"... miss me with all that.
For example, here are a couple from my HN favorites list, and I wouldn't mind seeing more of these articles:
* An Intuitive Explanation of Sparse Autoencoders for LLM Interpretability (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42268461)
* Scaling Monosemanticity: Extracting Interpretable Features from Claude 3 Sonnet (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40429540)
* Refusal in LLMs is mediated by a single direction (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40242939)
80% of shopping is done in stores. Off line retail is still quite successful despite Amazon.
But they were successful because they adapted. Most stores that completely ignored the Internet failed. The successful ones adapted.
OTOH The ones that tried competing directly against Amazon failed at a much higher rate.
That suggests the middle road: neither ignoring AI nor embracing it completely. Instead concentrate on the many strengths we have as humans.
For every Big New Thing that actually becomes a Big New Thing, there are many which become, at best, a historical curiosity.
If you have to pay for its full actual real costs, you might decide it's not worth it.
(All the AI startups are losing money even on their paid tiers. Google and Apple and Meta can eat the costs for some time, but at some point they'll have to try to recoup their investments.)
I come to HN to revel in the joys of programming and hackery, not to min-max my career. And if I could cull AI-related content from the front page, I would definitely do so as well.
Unfortunately, my feelings tell me otherwise. What is it that we humans are better at? Is it a chore of managing people, sitting on meetings and aligning stakeholders' interests? Feels to me more like a politician job than an engineering.
So if you want money, you need to provide a good or service that other humans want. Humans have an inside advantage providing goods and services to humans.
But I don't find its generative capabilities to be all that impressive. It is generic and uninspired at least in text generation. I feel the same way about most new things that are emerging out of the tech scene since Blockchain. I dont even bother with tech news nowadays.
AIs adoption has been quite fast though. Unlike blockchain that never went mainstream AI has captured the casual user segment. It's being used everywhere from recruiting to emails. In offices and in schools. It's hyped alright but real people are using it.
AI-related content is seasonal. This new LLM trend (which is now shifting towards “agentic AI”) will eventually fade and be replaced by another shiny new term. Basically, there’s a lot of noise, but every now and then, some gems pop up. Finding those articles is the fun part and the reason why I visit HN every day.
Aside from the fact that a ton of people here make money with AI or are or will be heavily invested in AI, there's just the curiosity factor, that I had and then lost to the reasons you described and many more.
My brain clicked in the past three days, and it's annoying that people didn't explain it properly but waited until I reasoned myself into it. It makes me angry and I'm gonna build a tiny potato canon this summer and hunt them down :P (I'm not, but I never build one, so ...)
Humans take a lot of wrong turns in their lives and it's important not to take that the wrong way. Envy is brutal and makes people do buttloads of dumb stuff and among those things are all those AI enhancers and data krakens build on top of GPT and of course all those people who create content and make those this-is-not-marketing videos ... but they all serve some customers, and of course, some Ponzis.
It rarely is what it is in this digital world, just as it always has been on any consumer markets. Honesty? Every single person and supplier counts.
Is it all pathetic? Is pathetic bad from all POVs?
A lot of people do it to pussy-grab money out of gullible people and if you really want to to get the benefits of AI, use it to hack these people and take em out of their fraudulent businesses so they have a reason to get and build better or pivot the fuck away.
I think these hype topics are inherent to HN though, given that the org is fundamentally a venture capital financial institution.
By nature, VC is always riding a wave of hype. Investors put money into a startup in hopes that it generates returns like the next singer on stage in her underwear.
The industry could support smaller returns from thousands of smaller startups, but the big payoff comes with investment in the next big superstar.
These are the same financial forces that guide massive industry consolidation.
Who actually likes goggle today? Investors...
Genetics research, especially for more rare conditions with less traditional research funding, is one application where I can’t help but feel excitement.
AI image & song generation in the style of a popular artist is one application where I only feel sadness.
Like so many successful applications of computers it's a new way of taking a monotonous task and grinding through it quickly. In this way I think it's different from some previous fads (e.g. block chain) and there is real utility.
I agree though that it's exhausting to read people anthropomorphize and hype it up.
With big advances, the current wave of AI is finally promising to turn this dream into reality.
Besides, it's already quite useful even with its current shortcomings.
--
² here's a short very incomplete list:
The Matrix, 2001 A Space Odyssey, Blade Runner, The Terminator, Robocop, Her, Ex Machina, Ghost in the Shell (1995, 2004, 2017), Data in Star Trek, Star Wars, ...
I see people here using those LLMs on their machine etc, I have no idea what they're doing with it or how any of that works.
Or writing prompts all day doesn't seem fun.
The paradox is that I work at a AI startup with a real product, with real clients ;)
So I don't think it's a fad and as a developper you have to stay alert on the effects it has on your profession.
AI is not useless NFTs.
But at the same time, I don't think Hacker News is that heavily flooded with AI related posts. In the 30 posts I see on the home page, 3 are AI related, with one being this post complaining about it. The next page of posts has even less, with only 1 or so post about an AI related topic.
I’m interested in AI tech (not philosophy or prophecies). But HN isn’t that great of a source for tech details. Reddit and local boards helped much more.
At the same time I have to ignore lots of shallow startups and react form developers 10x productivity reports, cause that sparks no interest.
AI hype is everywhere. On HN there is genuinely much higher quality conversation about AI than many other places.
So, no, the question in the title doesn't resonate with me. I don't think there is an obsession, and for the AI discussion happens, I'm happy with the quality of it.
But if you follow the thread to the end, this is the beginning of something that will change everything, probably more than the Industrial Revolution even.
The only thing I even remotely use AI for is Codeium in VS Code and that's almost entirely as autocomplete - every time I've tried to use it to generate anything more than a simple function I end up spending as much time going through it and rewriting it to suit my needs as I would have just writing it myself in the first place.
I like writing code, the same way I like writing prose and music and drawing. I will never want or need AI to do these things for me and, if I'm being honest, I'm always gonna be a snob to people who do.
If you don't care about the act of creation and the process of learning how to do it, what's the point? To "generate content"? To make money? Go be a prostitute then, if money is all you care about.
Maybe a life focused on efficiency of generating content works for some people but, fuck me, I'd rather gouge my own eyes out with a spoon.
So yeah, totally with you.
They’re all great to get you started on a (re)search path provided you take care to validate the information so easily acquired.
its a fascinating and useful tool, but its no silver bullet. Calm down and carry on people, less froth (I'm looking at YOU Microsoft!).
Fucking Tired of AI
I flagged this submission for this reason.
Of course there is a lot of lame content and grifting around this, but I'm pretty sure this is not another Web3.0 nft crypto hype wave, this is here to stay and expand.
* People who like AI or China or Trump or Apple.
* People who hate AI or China or Trump or Apple.
You see AI slammed as much as it is glorified here. And AI is the topic of the industry today, it would be like shoving your head in the the ground if you ignored it.
> I don't need you to convince me I'm wrong.
doesn't sound like they wanted to discuss anything, rather to encourage confirmation bias
Plus, I've seen several posts flagged in the past few days that would have been worthy of discussion; although being on the fringe of social/political, they are related to the tech sector and YC, which may, or may not explain why they were flagged.
To op - yes, feel the same, but what can you do...
Nope.
Someone took an HN poll last year and a majority agreed "AI" is overhyped.
I see your opinion a lot here on HN and I wonder if there is a segment of the population in this field who choose to stick their head in the sand? No doubt there is a lot of hype that won’t materialize but unlike some of the other hype cycles, people are starting to see a value from this current cycle already. Certainly at the bleeding edge the cost may exceed the value but it’s only a matter of time before those costs get eaten away.
So no, I don’t understand your feelings, I am excited for the future and if something gets posted on HN that I don’t like, I don’t read or upvote it.