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Comment by orev | Hacker News Reader

Switching inputs is by far the thing that causes the most anxiety for a regular person (based on observational evidence). I really believe that it makes or breaks whole lines of service.

IMO, streaming won in part because once people (i.e. grandma) changed the input to the streaming device, they couldn’t figure out how to get back to the cable box, or at least didn’t want to risk “breaking anything” when trying to do it when their resident tech person wasn’t around.

Getting rid of the input button is either really bad (making this process even more fraught), or is a sign that the whole idea is just going away. Input switching should be incorporated into the home screens instead of being a separate menu/function. Hopefully this is the direction LG is going.

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I really believe every software engineer should set aside some time and just watch a normal person interact with technology. Don't interrupt, just watch their process. It's mind-boggling how many inefficient workflows people are using because they aren't confident enough.

On some TVs, plugging in a USB stick pops up a notice like "would you like to view the contents?"

If you don't choose "yes" in time and the toast disappears, the alternative is to navigate a few menu items deep through an ad-filled home screen (maybe 10 clicks worth). It's easier to just physically unplug-replug.

I actually had a TV where that window was the only way to switch to the USB drive. What a pain that must've been for developers to test (though maybe they just dropped in some USB library and called it a day).

Totally agree. Learning how to explain technology as a teenager to my grandparents and assist them with it in a way they can understand gave me a much more holistic view towards tech. I honestly believe it's helped me quite a bit in my career as a software engineer because I can communicate effectively with my non-technical coworkers and serve as a bridge between them and the devs.

Growing up, I was tech support for family and friends of family and also my own friends. I eventually worked as a PC technician for a few years and now work as a software developer. I have a very keen eye for how bad UI/UX is for most devices, computers and software because of it and it's been a huge help in my work in the same way, but it's also been quite infuriating when I see decisions being made that prioritize KPIs like sale and click through rates that intentionally make the UX worse.

Is that due to software engineers or management/marketing? I doubt that engineers could make such decision

I've heard plenty of engineers say. "Yes, but that's a training issue"

> I've heard plenty of engineers say. "Yes, but that's a training issue"

I'd go one step deeper. Where did they learn to say this? I bet they learned to say this from the business.

Because I've asked about input validation on a line of business application and heard something similar to this "given this application is used by internal users only and because these users are trained experts on this subject, we don't need input validation".

You will get shut down really quickly if you ask whether a combination of choosing option A in step 12 and option C in step 37 together makes any sense at that company. Ask me how I know.

Oh yeah, of course the same person asked why we allowed these combinations once the application hit production.

Why do you think most engineers would understand users particularly well? From my experience, they're the worst at empathising with users, understanding user pain points and the value of a good UX.

If software engineers were responsible for user experience, they'd be trying to teach emacs to grandma.

Nothing blew my mind like watching my first girlfriend reset her password every single time she wanted to log into anything because she never remembered a single password.

God hope she never gets logged out of her email.

something you know: your email

something you have: your email credentials

sounds like proper login to me :-)

It's been at least 20 years since companies stopped listening to software developers. Now we have product owners, scrum masters, bussiness analysts, delivery managers.

All of those roles existed 20 years ago. UX issues are being ignored because the manufacturers do not care about a product that is sold at a loss, only the after-sales revenue that can come from ads and other content distribution deals.

Watching someone (relatively competent in their field) search on Google for "Gmail" then click on the first link to open their inbox a few years ago killed my faith in humanity.

> Switching inputs

It could be so easy. Just render all the inputs at once, scaled to fit all of them on screen at the same time, and then select the one you want. Could be done intuitively with as few as two buttons. Interleaving samples of the scaled inputs would preclude any dramatic hardware cost.

Maybe someone has done this, but the TVs I've seen have a primitive and hostile scheme that frequently ends in a black screen with some mystifying abbreviated label and no clue where to go next. 100% certain to traumatize grandma.

>>Just render all the inputs at once, scaled to fit all of them on screen at the same time

That is not simple at all. In fact most TV multiplexers don't have the ability to obtain frames of input from more than one source at the same time.

That's OK. They could show an ad for 10-30 seconds while collecting previews for each input.

Would grabbing a single static frame from each be viable, or would it be clunky because of some sort of minimal time to switch?

> That is not simple at all.

You could add a second, low power unit that scans unused inputs over time (looping 5 sec of video per input is enough to have "fresh" picture on all inputs.

Please stop conflating simple with cheap.

Yes, I know. The fact that I know is reflected in what I wrote: interleaving samples from the inputs.

> once people (i.e. grandma) changed the input to the streaming device, they couldn’t figure out how to get back to the cable box

Unless you have a remote with the magical "TV" button and you only have to teach (i.e. grandma) to press that one when the TV channels don't appear.

Not sure if this would work with cable boxes though, as they might get separated from the default TV input (as in, scanned channels) but THIS is something they should make smarter (learning the default input and assigning it to the TV button)

I've often wondered whether people would be less confused if they replaced the word "Input" on the remote with the word "Switch".

For people who don't really understand what a set-top box is or how it works or how it is connected, why would we expect "Input" to have any meaning to them at all?

I have a el cheapo 2024 Hisense TV with Amazon fire TV and it does not care if I had it set to HDMI 2 when I turned it off. It always comes back to its own home screen. I haven't figured out how to have it stick to my computer when it turns on.

Ha, the SAP button must be a close second. I remember my neighbors literally screaming at the cable company on the phone over it while I was over there to watch a movie. I hit the SAP button and went back to my beer.

What’s a SAP button?

[Second audio program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_audio_program)

It makes HBO talk in Spanish

Anecdote/Tangent: Roku TV wins an award for worst input switching UX. From Home, you have to go into Settings (the quick settings accessible from the remote aren't enough,) then scroll down the Inputs menu and then select your input. At least with LG, inputs are directly available from the Home menu.

I've had multiple Roku TVs. All the inputs were in the list of apps. You can easily rename them, order them in the grid, change the icon, etc.

Funny, I just commented that I like the Roku method. My inputs show up as tiles on the home screen alongside the other apps. You can show/hide the ones you want.

When I first got a Roku TV I had to uninstall a ton of applications that were auto installed, which are treated just as equally as your actual inputs on the home screen. Then once I got that done I later realized removing an input device left that tile on the screen, you would think the OS could be smart enough to see that the device isn't connected for a while and maybe drop it off after some time? I find Roku TV kind of clunky.

Dropping access to disconnected inputs is extremely annoying. When connecting something new, you often want to change the TV to the input before powering on the device.

Why? I think most users would only want to show devices that are alive. Displaying everything can be quite confusing.

Because when you have a new device there might be boot messages that disappear faster than you can switch to the input after it detects a signal. So you want to be switched to that input before turning it on.

Strange, my TCL Roku TV just has them on the Home screen. What type of TV do you have?

They should make apps in the home screen for switching to other inputs. I wonder if HDMI CEC is now good enough to do the job. The hard part is switching back to the streaming device. Maybe use the home button and try to act like the TV/Bluray/Xbox is an app.

Streaming won because the US government took down Megaupload in 2012, and has been taking down torrent trackers for years.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too while reading the article. For a tech-focused person, sure, input switching might me obvious. But to a lot of people having only active and valid inputs being selectable might be the best solution.

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