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Comment by Ensorceled | Hacker News Reader

I predict this will get worse as e-bikes increasingly allow people to get to places they do not have the experience, fitness and skill to get their on their own.

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I'd wager mountain bikers being able to use ski lifts to go uphill is almost certainly a much bigger contributor to inexperienced people doing 'stupid' things than e-bikes.

In areas where ski lifts exist (and operators allow mountain bikers to use them), yes. E-bikes however allow them easier access to areas where they can hurt themselves everywhere (including areas that are much more remote than those served by ski lifts)...

I'm saying e-bikes are, and will continue to, make it worse, not that this wasn't already happening.

Adding to this, the ski lifts seem to me designed to attract the speed demons with downhill bikes designed for thrills. Not casual exploring and sight seeing from a bike.

Could be technique demons with enduro bikes, but yes, you don't generally need lift rides for XC or touring. Works the same as cross-country skiing and the other skiing (sorry, I'm not a skier).

downhill skiing :)

I literally see people deliver food on these things with no helmet on high traffic routes.

It’s like, you are a meat bag with a fragile coconut head traveling at least 25mph, like, please read the Humpty Dumpty story.

And all the kings horses and all the kings men, couldn’t cure the aneurysm that denatured the ham

I saw a 12 year old going 25+ with no shirt or helmet on. This was at a vacation spot in Florida with massive sidewalks for bikes and golf carts but he was zig zagging through cars on the road.

afaik most ebikes are limited at 20mph, and realistically the thing that kills most cyclists is cars not the speed of cycling. And when a car runs you over a styrofoam helmet isn't going to help much.

Even if not limited in speed, the assist is limited so on flat ground you are still limited to under 30mph. However downhill any bike can get going much faster - I've been to 35mph on my non-electric bike (my electric bike is slower downhill, but there difference isn't much), and I live in an area known for how flat it is - those of you are live where there are real hills (much less mountains) can easially get going much faster.

Hit 45mph heading down Tioga Pass leaving Yosemite headed east. With a loaded BOB trailer[0]. Could've got going a hell of a lot faster, but I thought the better of it.

35 is hauling pretty good ass on a bike. It's not a speed it'd be advisable for someone to just jump on a e-bike and do. Fortunately, most e-bikes made by reputable manufacturers top out at 20 or 28. Unfortunately, there are plenty of less reputable brands. Not that nobody can ride faster safely, but this is a case where earning your speed will give you the experience to manage it safely.

[0] Before they pivoted to the larger and more lucrative stroller market, they made excellent single wheel bicycle trailers for touring.

E-bikes that go too fast are already an issue.

Friends wife went for a walk on a pedestrian path, onlookers saw her hit from behind by someone on an e-bike going very fast. She still doesn’t remember anything.

I wish there was some sort of permitting required to use one of these things. I love the idea of people getting around quickly without needing a car, but I take serious issue with a large number of people I see on these things in the streets (and more annoyingly sidewalks) of Seattle that think they're a pedestrian that just happens to be going 20+ mph.

How much of this is the bicycle, and how much of this is that it enables less conscientious people to go more miles at otherwise normal cycling speeds? The e- part is limited to speeds most people can reach on a normal bicycle unless they modify it.

/r/IdiotsInCars is a monument to how ineffective permitting is for this purpose. The people rear-ending pedestrians on sidewalks at 20MPH might be the same people who never miss their off ramp.

> The e- part is limited to speeds that most people can reach on a normal bicycle.

Maybe.

There are regulations, but the wording is generally such that the bike cannot be sold with a speed capability greater than X. So the bikes ship from the factory with a firmware setting for the max speed of X. But as soon as people buy the bike they go into the bike settings (!) and change it to whatever higher speed that they want.

Whenever crashes happen these settings need to be examined and they need to be part of the liability determination.

Also, how much of this riding in pedestrian areas is because all resources and area has been assigned to cars? Instead of being angry at cyclists, I often wish more people saw that it shouldn't be a fight between "soft road users", but instead a fight against cars limiting where people can move themselves.

If someone runs over a pedestrian and they're in the hospital because they drove in a pedestrian path ... that's on them, not "it's me vs cars".

Problems you see in videos on the internet maybe prove that problems will still occur with permitting.

It doesn't show you if it would happen any less compared to no permitting.

Not that I care either way regarding permitting, but people being stupid is common, but we still do things to try to limit it.

Are people using e-bikes to go faster on downhill riding? Most of the mountain ebikers I’ve met are much more casual riders.

I'd guess it's more that it's easier to get to the top of the hill in the first place using an e-bike. Without an e-bike most casual riders might write the whole thing off as too much work. Once you start going downhill the motor won't really do anything.

And it means you get more bites at the apple on hard trails.

Without an ebike you gas out and decide not to go back up.

Do you get 2x more trips down the hill? 3x? Probably depends on your fitness level.

As an intermediate rider one reason I’ve not gotten an ebike is I worry that it increases my exposure to the more dangerous parts of the sport.

I don't think so ... they are going higher on more challenging routes, climbing hills that they can then do not have the skills to get down safely. With a heavier bike.

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