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Comment by chelical | Hacker News Reader

Housing isn't that expensive or unaffordable in the US unless you want to live in NYC or SF.

Northern CO here, my daughter had big plans of finding someplace to live with 2-4 of her friends after graduating high school, but they all quickly decided that was not at all workable due to housing costs.

This just isn’t true

[flagged]

This is Texas:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TXSTHPI

It's worse in San Francisco, but it's a nation-wide problem.

I would argue that it's worse now in high COL TX metros than it is in the bay area, because even if home values are still lower in Austin, for example, Texas property taxes are brutal compared to CA and have increased dramatically [in line with property value appreciation], which Prop 13 doesn't allow to happen in CA.

I mean it's not just Texas either.

Florida: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FLSTHPI

Pennsylvania: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PASTHPI

Virginia: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/VASTHPI

Vermont: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/VTSTHPI

Tennessee: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TNSTHPI

I can tell you haven't ever actually shopped for housing outside of a major city.

"Don't be snarky."

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Housing cost complaints are dramatically overstated on HN because SF and Seattle are dramatically overrepresented. Housing has definitely become more expensive on average in much of the country over the last few years, but it's not as crazy an issue in most places as it is in the places many HNers live, and there are plenty of places where housing is actually still quite cheap (for example, most of the Midwest).

It’s also quite bizarre to read these endless complaints, because by definition roughly 1 percent of communities must be in the 99th percentile of communities in terms of unaffordability.

Edit: That can never change either, in aggregate, so it’s literally futile to complain about it in general terms.

> there are plenty of places where housing is actually still quite cheap (for example, most of the Midwest).

The housing market in Madison, Wisconsin is crazy. I sold my house 8 years ago, and now its estimated value is 70% higher than my selling price. I know a lot of people in the area who are despondent about the prices.

I said most. There are exceptions, of course.

> I said most.

Ok, but what's the empirical justification for this claim? Why is Madison, Wisconsin a rare exception?

Madison is exceptional for a midwestern city. It has a large and excellent state university. Epic is based there and most of FAANG has outposts there to draw the CS talent. Additionally, it is the state capitol which means a lot of companies providing services to the state. Aside from all that, it is a pretty picturesque location for the Midwest, with the two big lakes and surrounded by rolling hills. Something you won't find in Urbana-Champaign for comparison.

When people talk about low cost of living in the Midwest they generally mean more depressed areas. I live in a very low cost of living rural (15k ppl) community in Illinois, with half an acre on a lake in a 3000 sq foot house where the mortgage is only 250k. Of course, if I ever lose my remote job, I'd never be able to find work. Most of the people here work at one of 2 medium-sized factories or the hospital. The median household income is only $40k.

The town I live in is a far more common case for the rural Midwest.

Ok, but the Midwest is also Chicago, Columbus, Detroit, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, etc.

> most of FAANG has outposts there to draw the CS talent.

I'm aware of a small Google office in Madison, but that's it.

when there are enough exceptions, they are no longer exceptions

there are areas where housing is still cheap (rural Iowa, Arkansas, etc.), but they're not areas where there are jobs so it doesn't matter how cheap it is

almost any major city these days housing is much more expensive than it used to be relative to income

> housing is actually still quite cheap ... most of the Midwest

not based on the data

change in median housing prices as per Zillow, since 2017

Minneapolis: +50% https://www.zillow.com/home-values/5983/minneapolis-mn/

Omaha: +80% https://www.zillow.com/home-values/40152/omaha-ne/

St Louis: +62% https://www.zillow.com/home-values/6891/saint-louis-mo/

KC: +94% https://www.zillow.com/home-values/18795/kansas-city-mo/

OKC: +68% https://www.zillow.com/home-values/33225/oklahoma-city-ok/

Des Moines: +68% https://www.zillow.com/home-values/17759/des-moines-ia/

Milwaukee: +119% https://www.zillow.com/home-values/5976/milwaukee-wi/

Indianapolis: +103% https://www.zillow.com/home-values/32149/indianapolis-in/

Little Rock: +38% https://www.zillow.com/home-values/52998/little-rock-ar/

etc.

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