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Comment by throwaway48476 | Hacker News Reader

There's a lot of interest in forcing people to use public transit but relatively little interest in making transit something people want to use. If people think they're going to be stabbed or assaulted they're not going to want to use it. Other countries don't have this problem and until the transit types realize this normal people are going to reject transit alltogether.

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Close to 5 million people ride MTA trains and buses every day. And that number gets much higher if you include commuter rail, NJ Transit, PATH, ferries etc. operating in the city. Over 70% of daily commuters in NYC already use some form of public transit, and 90% of those commuting into Manhattan use public transit.

All the "the subways are too crime ridden to use" shouts are pure propaganda. If millions of New Yorkers can survive, so can you.

Calling it "pure propaganda" is itself pure propaganda.

Counterpoint, this poor soul who was literally burned to death: https://nypost.com/2024/12/31/us-news/mystery-woman-torched-...

The subway is worse than it was pre-Covid. Congestion pricing will not address that.

"Suck it up cowards" is hardly good public policy.

Okay now let's similarly post about every single one of the hundreds of people who were killed in traffic accidents last year in the city (including plenty who burned to death in their cars). That should be enough to convince you that no one should drive here right? Or is safety suddenly not a concern anymore?

People seek agency and don't consider traffic deaths to be the same as random assaults. It's for the same reason most people think they'd do well in a fight. They value their agency and assume they would be able to prevent it.

Are you implying everyone who gets in a traffic accident has full agency over the situation? Because that is laughably far from reality. It is infinitely easier to consciously avoid danger on the subway than in a car.

I have some agency. I can drive faster or slower, more or less aggressively, choose a vehicle based on safety, not drive in bad weather or when the bars let out, drive more or less frequently.

I can't control if some batshit crazy tries to set me on fire, aside from riding the subway less.

I do ride the subway, BTW. But I definitely do not habitually walk as close to the platform edge as I used to given how public safety has slide the last handful of years. I blame, of course, de Blasio.

You have way more control over batshit crazies than riding the subway less. You can change the subway car, fight, ask for help, engage the police. And let’s face it - you never gonna be this person who got burnt.

> Are you implying everyone who gets in a traffic accident has full agency over the situation? Because that is laughably far from reality. It is infinitely easier to consciously avoid danger on the subway than in a car.

I would note that people can falsely believe things about how much agency they really have, and that this seems to be the case with cars vs. public transit.

Pedestrians outside of cars don't have agency to prevent injury to themselves from cars.

Situational awareness shouldn't be discounted.

I was hit by a car once, due to the driver's lack of situational awareness.

I was turning from a major road into a minor road, a car was stopped at the exit to that minor road, but they failed to look in my direction, and pulled out into me.

My bike was a write-off, fortunately I was uninjured — they had started from stationary, so probably less than 10 mph when they hit me, and I always wear a helmet.

My kid was bumped recently, by a similarly unobservant driver. Fortunately unharmed. I don't think the solution is reducing traffic density in my town, however, through taxation. Rather, encouraging accountability and discouraging distraction.

Given the disparity of outcomes, I've always been vigilant of misbehaving drivers. This served me well as a bicycle messenger. Yes, drivers are responsible for violations of the official laws, but ultimately as cyclists we should seek to have maximum awareness. Otherwise you are surrendering agency to people who text while driving.

Well, hell, let's think about everyone who choked to death in New York. Krazy Kat should levy a masticulation tax below 60th street. It'll be easier to get a table! Think of all the environmental benefits of not eating fancy foods!

>The peer who called out agency makes the right point. I choose to drive and I accept the baseline danger of driving.

Pedestrians get killed by car crashes all the time, and they never accepted that baseline danger of driving.

Apologies. I revised my comment after you replied. I did not notice the reply.

100% off all home invasions occur in peoples residences and can be a terrifying and often deadly experience. It is recommended that if you want to avoid these crimes you stay away from homes.

If it's so good then why do they need measures like this one?

The USA needs to work on:

-- making the cost of employing a good staffing level of police more affordable (so that we can have more, everyday police doing a job as a neighborhood force and seen as a reliable presence against crime)

-- more certain prosecution and penalties for quality of life crimes that we all pay for in seeing petty but significantly confidence-decreasing incidents that reduce our willingness to take public transport

-- reducing the cost / increasing the frequency and usefulness of public transport services where you regard it equally as convenient as private vehicles

You go to some other countries (less rich ones particularly) and buses have 2 crew, trains have multiple staff, taking fares, making sure rules are obeyed. Giving people confidence that this is something they want to ride on. Not a system where it looks like the station is half abandoned, was last cleaned about 2 years ago, and if you were mugged or even just reported a crazy ranting homeless person, they would shrug and tell you to phone it in.

Subways in nyc have 2 crew by union decree and I don’t think it’s helped public safety

New York has an extraordinary level of police already. They're just bad at dealing with the actual problems. Including murdering a bystander in a totally unnecessary subway shooting.

I don’t think in NYC it’s fair to argue that there’s relatively little interest in making transit something people want to use. We can debate about whether the efforts are effective, and certainly many aren’t. However there are vast sums invested in the MTA and a great many folks at the MTA who try to make it pleasant and safe. Additionally there have been added police and military presence in subway stations around the city for months (again, no comment on efficacy). All I’ll say is that there is a ton of interest from leadership on down in making the subway and buses work well for normal people and far more money then congestion pricing cost to implement or will bring in.

The police just walked past the lady set on fire. It's on video.

Why is it that where I live all the tech companies built their own transit system just for their employees? Because they can control the experience and prevent the problems that turn people away from public transit. Either public transit is for the quiet people who are just trying to get somewhere or it can be for the nuisance types. They're incompatible.

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