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Comment by nlh | Hacker News Reader

(Professional coin & currency nerd here)

Fun fact about these — when the treasury first issued these, many people decided to cut them into odd off-center pieces and sell the resulting notes as miscut errors.

Once that started happening, the treasury (BEP to be specific) very quickly changed the serial numbers so they’re all very recognizable as having come from an uncut sheet. I didn’t check the latest for all denominations, but I know for $1 bills they all start with 99.

So if you see a “miscut dollar error” for sale on eBay or the like, always check the serial. If it starts with 99 then it’s just someone who had some fun with a pair of scissors and it’s not a real error.

For example, to wit:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/135364285098

View on HN

Aside: Can you report items like these? eBay doesn't seem to have a report category for "description is a lie".

I'm shocked someone would pay $500 for an erroneously cut $1 bill.

People will pay extra for currency that has zero errors, and only an interesting serial number.

To wit: the Mint will also sell you in line with Chinese numerology collectible bills with “777”s or “888”s in their SNs with a decorative envelope. Bless the marketing exec who’s finding nontraditional markets for collectible currency.

> the Mint will also sell you in line with Chinese numerology collectible bills with “777”s or “888”s in their SNs

For Chinese numerology, you'd want 666.

Sevens are a massive number in Chinese numerology: The 7 parts (yin/yang/metals), the 7 steps, 7 captures, etc.

Eights are symbols of prosperity, wealth, generosity, good fortune in business, etc.

Six is a kinda useless number for money -- Smoothness and whatnot are less for money and more for one's tongue. You'd name a wine after a six (I've seen "Dice Wine" referring to 6-sided dice) but not look for it in bills

Well, https://hsbc.banklocationmaps.com/en/chn/shanghai only lists one branch at a street address of 666, and that one is really just sharing the address of the commercial center where it's located, but that still seems like enough for this point.

8 is heavily represented. 6 is a runner-up. 7 doesn't appear to be significant in this context.

Consider the branch phone numbers:

3888 3888

3888 8468

3888 8900

3888 1200

6279 8582

3888 3111

3888 1318

3888 1188

3888 6455

3888 8618

3888 8688

3888 1218

3888 6388

There is technically one 7 in there, but it seems clear that the bank would have preferred not to have it. Counting only the second halves, 8 is overwhelmingly popular, so is 1 (for reasons I don't know), 6 is only barely ahead of what's typical, but still in third place, and 7 doesn't even exist.

For those who are interested: the Chinese character for 8 is a pair of downward lines, close together at the top, far apart at the bottom. Looks a bit like / \. The idea behind it, as far as I know, is that it represents things growing larger, which is why it is of interest where wealth is concerned.

> Looks a bit like / \

You can just display the character, 八.

Just because it's listed at $500, doesn't mean someone will pay that.

You underestimate what people pay for. I fall into the same trap though.

The sold listings for "miscut dollar bill" would beg to differ.

I am _always_ and _continually_ surprised at what people will pay for things. Literally _nobody_ scaled back their consumption or purchasing during post-COVID inflation. Home prices are sky-high but it's still a sellers market because buyers are scared that prices will jump again and instead of simply being a difficult purchase, maybe next year it will be an impossible one. Must be easy money being a realtor right now.

Every time I have sold something on Craigslist or FB Marketplace in the last few years, I list it 25% higher than what I'd actually pay if I were buying it myself and expect to be negotiated down to something sensible. So far, excluding the low-effort moronic "what's your lowest price" texts, exactly ZERO buyers have tried to negotiate down.

I have come to the conclusion that most people simply have no upper limit to what they will pay for something they want. A few will scoff and turn away. Some will complain about it on the Internet, but most will buy it anyway. I don't run a business but if I did, this would be my golden rule of pricing.

I think people have an upper limit. Sure, $7 eggs might be below the limit but if you want into a grocery store because you wanted to make french toast and the eggs are $25 are you buying them or just eating something else?

I would agree that the upper limit is above what the common price is though. This should really be a good thing because you want people to consume goods; that makes the economy go in a circle. For necessities like food and gas (energy) the government goes out of its way to subsidize them.

I just think most people don't feel like putting in the work to figure out what a clearing price for an action would be when selling not-auctioned items. This is where things like RealPage get dangerous because it will find the best price and that best price is not what the median people can afford.

I have a realtor friend and it's feast or famine.

Sure, housing prices are high, but matching and buyer and a seller is a logistical nightmare right now.

People have such a fascination with anything "rare". It's such a meme on ebay how often the word "RARE" is used.

kinda off topic but since you're an expert here: what do people do with these uncut sheets? Is it mainly for collectors?

also, my favorite form of getting currency is $2 bills in a 100 stack (so $200) from the bank. I used to use these for gift money on holidays :) but unfortunately my credit union doesn't order new stacks anymore, just jumbled up old $2 bills now.

A great question - it's something the BEP offers to collectors basically for the cool factor. People frame them, give them as gifts, etc. It's just kind of fun to see real money as it comes off the press (and, thankfully, it inspires lots of collectors!)

$2 bills are SUPER fun. 99.9% are not worth more than $2, but they still bring a smile to peoples' faces when you leave them as tips, etc. I always keep a stack in my cash box at coin shows to give out as change to kids, tips to the pages, etc.

Is there a market to buy 2 dollar bills for less than two? You say they’re worth less so maybe it’s an arbitrage opportunity

> You say they’re worth less

They said they're (mostly) not worth more than $2.

They aren't worth less than $2 either. They are worth $2.

$2 bills are somewhat rare and are considered lucky. We could use math to prove that on average $2 dollar bill is worth more than $2. 1 - There exist collectable $2 dollar bills which are worth significantly more than $2. 2 - there are no $2 dollar bills which are worth less than $2 due to being legal tender. From 1 and 2 - average value of all $2 bills is above $2.

Counterpoint: there are places in the world where people will not accept a $2 bill due to unfamiliarity - it may as well be a $7 bill. Therefore, there exists a $2 that's worth nothing as legal tender.

All it takes is a cooperating bank teller, $200, and some patience and you can order a strap of $2's. Chances are large that 100 uncirculated $2 bills in sequential order will be ready for you to pick up in a few days.

I don't expect there's much more value than $200 in there, but if you disagree, you're welcome to figure out what your local bank's limit on currency ordering is :P

The San Diego zoo used to make a point of stocking all their cashiers with $2 bills, as a subtle "this is how much we bring to the local economy" indicator.

It's not a bad idea for a small business, either, until everyone starts doing it.

There's a strip club in Portland that only gives out $2 bills in change, as the minimum you should toss on stage at any one time.

What's really funny is, if you walk into any other bar in Portland and tip with them, there's a good chance the bartender will ask if you've just been to that stripclub.

I’m visiting Vietnam for Tet, and one cultural quirk of theirs that I’ve learned is that $2 bills are considered lucky money. So much so that kids there will hold onto those $2 bills as keepsakes (though they could spend them). And thus I made my first ever trip to the bank to special order a bunch of $2s.

Something I wonder is if an uncut sheet of $2 bills would be considered extraordinarily lucky, because it’s a bunch of $2s in nearly mint condition. Or if it would be considered incredibly unlucky because those kids would have no easy way of cutting them perfectly.

Why do people smile about $2 notes?

(In Europe no one would bat an eye about any € coin. Only the now-discontinued but still legal 500€ notes have this effect)

They are fairly rare. They are the least printed bill [1] and aren't included in a typical cash register, so just randomly stumbling upon one in the wild is a pretty rare. Sometimes people think they are fake because they've never seen one before. The only reliable way to get them is to specially request them from a bank or order them from the government. Also, because of the novelty, people tend to collect them, at least informally, so they don't tend to circulate much either.

[1] https://www.bep.gov/currency/production-figures/annual-produ...

When I worked fast food, a customer paid with a few $2 bills. It wasn't strange to me. But when I tried to hand them as change to another customer, they looked at me like I was an idiot and demanded that I pay them in real money.

Before then, I was cashing my paycheck at a bank. I'd occasionally ask them for $50 of it in $2 bills. The bank had them approximately half the time, and it was fun to pay for things with them.

They’re popular at strip clubs because it means a bigger tip rate for the dancers.

How do people know that they are rare? I don't even know what bills exist in my country but I know they keep changing them now and then. I wouldn't be able to tell whether it was rare or just a new bill I haven't seen before.

The US has a small set of valid bank notes. It's not like other countries that have multiple issuers, each with their own schedules for when to update designs.

On top of that, this isn't just a design that a person hasn't seen often, it's a denomination. Think of the 500 EUR notes, they were unfamiliar to many people.

There are collectable 0 Euro notes. I think they're fun.

Wallpaper?

I bought a sheet of $2 bills and tried to cut them myself with scissors first. My wife took one look at my handiwork and said "Well, you're going to jail."

Steve Wozniak famously would get a bunch of $2 uncut sheets, and have them perforated and bound into a tear-off book. Then, he would dramatically produce the book and tear out a sheet of them to pay for things, as a sort of gag. I think it got him investigated by the Secret Service at one point.

> I think it got him investigated by the Secret Service at one point.

Is it illegal?

It is discouraged to well actually I didn't technically say that they were counterfeit although someone who is not as very smart as me may have incorrectly concluded that from my ambiguous statements.

No but the Secret Service is basically required to investigate if someone sends them a tip that they suspect they’ve seen more than four (five?) counterfeit notes at a time.

Woz pays a print shop to perforate them so that he can troll people by tearing perforated bills off a sheet and handing them out. If anyone asks where he got them, he says "Oh I have some friends at a print shop that do these up for me" and leaves out the part where they started as uncut sheets of legal currency.

https://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v18n36a40.html

I wouldn't advise doing this. Story goes he's been pulled into a room by the secret service for questioning.

Shame the link in the article to read the rest of the story doesn’t work

Edit: full story: https://web.archive.org/web/20180311084811/http://archive.wo...

Could just watch Mr woz explain it directly: https://youtu.be/LJ1TIYxm1vM?si=o2GHQaFirc9_alwe

I will point out since this site is full of professional pedants, Woz plainly enjoys the art and craft of exaggerating stories and not correcting interviewers :)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/0...

* With $1 bills wrap a gift with them as "wrapping paper" you bought at the mall. Generates lots of confusion because it's freaky how real they look (because they are in fact real dollars). Recipient can keep as a novelty or cut up and use.

* If you are giving a gift to someone you know is into crafting and has a precision paper trimmer you can wrap a gift with some higher value items ($100 or $200 total) so the wrapping paper is the gift. Or crumple and use as padding inside the box. I find this annoying personally.

* Talk about money and how they make money with your kids - the novelty is a plus here.

nice touch that the ruler is inscribed "do unto others..." :D

Maybe that's a way to recoup paying $86 for $50?

Isn't messing with money (destroying it, melting coins, etc) really punished by most countries?

If so, why is money one can cut a thing?

There are primarily two things that those laws are concerned with: preventing fraud and preventing a shortage.

Shortages aren't much of an issue anymore, as so many transactions are digital, and fabric / paper currency doesn't have any precious metal. The actual value isn't lost, and is easily replaced.

Defacing currency to pretend a bill or coin is one of higher value is pretty hard to do simply by cutting. Most businesses won't take such heavily damaged currency, and banks won't exchange notes with less than half of the original present. Collectors hoping for rarity ("mistake" bills) are, like any speculator, on their own for verifying authenticity (ensuring serial numbers are right, usually).

More to your point, you've answered your own question. Non-fabric currency can also easily be damaged. The convenience and cost of printed fabric / paper versus stamped metal outweighs the risk posed by weakness to damage, and replacing a certain amount of loss each year is generally expected.

Is it illegal to purposefully cut it that way?

If I recall correctly, as long as it has more than half of one bill in one piece, it's okay. Good luck trying to pay for stuff though.

People do the same with uncut sheets of MTG cards, but I doubt these will sell for high enough to be worthwhile

...and now that Ebay listing says "477 viewed in the last 24 hours!"

Hahah up to 721 now. That guy must think he hit the jackpot! :)

It said 1800 now for me. :)

2200 now! New business idea -- use eBay listings for HN post analytics.

I'm....not sure....how any of that would work. But hey! Business!

Use HN to inflate eBay listing views. Make your wares seem more in demand.

Twitter might do better, though ))

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