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Comment by thenaturalist | Hacker News Reader

> Don’t give drugs, they can permanently mess up his mind.

Reading your entire comment, but especially this sentence makes my blood boil.

None of this is backed up by science and you provide no sources.

This is the equivalent to flat earthers explaining how the universe works or anti-vaxxers how thoughts cure disease.

The OPPOSITE is true: Medication, especially given during age when neuroplasticity is still high can have the best long term effects on neurological development and avoid many adverse life effects normally associated with untreated ADHD such as substance abuse and risky behavior.

Sources:

https://www.additudemag.com/long-term-effects-of-adhd-medica...

https://childmind.org/article/will-adhd-medication-change-my...

And about a dozen more if you google for 10 minutes.

All typical medication used for treating ADHD has been around for decades with mountains of clinical data.

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> Don't give drugs, they can permanently mess up his mind.

This is common and good advice. Ritalin at one point was prescribed for ADD and ADHD, Kurt Cobain ended up dying by suicide as a result of complications from his use of the drug.

Spectrum disorders have been used for the past 20+ years as catchall diagnoses. There have been many stories of people who were diagnosed with these disorders, when in fact they were exposed to toxic products without their knowledge.

Heavy metal poisoning from chronic low-level exposure for example mimics nearly all the symptoms and won't show up in blood tests without a chelator. The doctor generally has to have an idea of the substance they are looking for to justify ordering the specific tests. Low-level chronic exposure rarely presents

Exposure to many toxins can have these symptoms. Some studies suggest high doses of PFAS, microplastics, or even above safe-limits for flouride, and other industrial contaminants can cause these similar-looking issues.

They are actually quite different causes, and brain damage in the more extreme cases can occur if left untreated, especially in youth which are more susceptible to certain toxins.

>Kurt Cobain ended up dying by suicide as a result of complications from his use of the drug.

Oof... you skipped right over the Heroin part of that equation.

Honestly, what if taking drugs as a kid desensitized him and made him feel it was fine? Sure it is legal vs illegal, but once you get used to the idea “drugs are good” it could be bad for the mind

Do you have any sources for what you claim to be fact here?

Cause it sure as hell goes way against common research.

> This is common and good advice.

No it is not.

To be clear: This is equivalent to saying: Don't get vaccinated, vaccines don't work.

Or: The earth is flat.

It is unscientific and plain wrong.

...then post some, instead of obviously biased organisations which make a living of treating it as a problem but can't come up with better reasons than -are less likely to finish high school and college -are more likely to experience unemployment -have more difficulty paying bills -are more likely to experience substance use issues

How likely? I'm not bothering looking it up, it should be mentioned right there! Anyway, it sure sounds like the general crime of being poor + not obeying the system as the ruling classes expect. So instead of perhaps checking on the system, lets fill the child with some completely harmless pharmaceuticals:

"If a child taking a stimulant seems sedated or zombie-like, or tearful and irritable, it usually means that the dose is too high and the clinician needs to adjust the prescription to find the right dose."

No way that could mess up a childs mind, right? Everyone thinking otherwise is clearly a flat earther. Disclaimer: I happen to be a clinician, although not in that field, and drug side effects like those - on a child - usually need very, very good justifications or it's malpractice. And just because it seems to have worked for you the right way doesn't mean that it's right for anyone.

> then post some, instead of obviously biased organisations which make a living of treating it as a problem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_of_attention_defi...

Wikipedia is a good start, if you are open to the idea of being proven wrong. There is in fact quite a bit of evidence suggesting that many children with ADHD benefit from getting medicated with e.g. methylphenidate and amphetamine.

Of course ADHD medications come with risks, but the question is if they are on the whole beneficial for the patient or not. Brain surgery has risks, Ibuprofen has risks, exercise has risks.

If you are truly a clinician, I don't understand your comment.

Because it's all about you, your morals and unscientific personal opinion and 0 about interest for patient outcomes.

That is not the medical ethos.

And it seems you actually don't have much touchpoints with modern psychiatric practice.

I'd give a lot for my parents who got indication of my diagnosis at a much earlier age and never told me to act on that instead of me suffering the consequences of their failure to provide medical intervention - both with regards to broken relationships in personal and professional life, years of depression and thousands of Euros out of my own pocket to get to the point of understanding myself where I am today.

As always if you start on a psychoactive medication, adult or not, you'd go trough titration to determine an optimal dose.

This is closely monitored by your psychiatrist where I live.

Nobody in this process has any incentive to produce sedated zombies.

Everyone in this process has incentives to avoid very real human suffering.

If you want to go more in depth, as always, Huberman has an in depth and direct source rich talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxgCC4H1dl8

All right, well I didn’t mean to be offensive in what I wrote. Please forgive me, it was written quickly. I hope we can all learn from each other in this forum, it was very kind of you to post those studies!

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