We're going straight to Mars. The Moon is a distraction | Hacker News Reader

We're going straight to Mars. The Moon is a distraction

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4 pointsf1shy20 comments

This sounds like sour grapes after the dearMoon project folded last year.

We all know 'self-sustaining colony' is a load of nonsense. No one knows how to build a self-sustaining ecosystem. As Bruce Sterling wrote 20 years ago:

"I'll believe in people settling Mars at about the same time I see people settling the Gobi Desert. The Gobi Desert is about a thousand times as hospitable as Mars and five hundred times cheaper and easier to reach. Nobody ever writes "Gobi Desert Opera" because, well, it's just kind of plonkingly obvious that there's no good reason to go there and live. It's ugly, it's inhospitable and there's no way to make it pay. Mars is just the same, really. We just romanticize it because it's so hard to reach."

The problem is that we don't all know that. One thing I've learned over many years talking about this on and offline is that only a fraction of people are aware that "The big rocket to get you to Mars in a hurry," isn't the hardest part of a Mars colony. When you talk to people about microbiome research, the challenges of even modestly reduced gravity, radiation exposure, the *cost* of getting even the most conservative starter pack of water, food, crops, etc...

People either don't get it, or more often, never thought about it. When you remind them that "self-sustaining" means that your colony needs to PRODUCE everything it needs for survival, with no bad years, and do so reliably... they start to get the picture.

And what's the value of a Martian colony that's dependent on Earth to survive? I should say, the value that the Moon doesn't have and then some?

Once again eyes glaze over.

I am appropriately corrected, thank you.

After 20 years, I don't understand why that issue isn't at the forefront of the discussion, given how having a self-sustaining independent ecosystem here on earth is much more likely to help with most of the global catastrophes people use to advocate for being a multi-planetary species.

New plague that's 99.9% fatal? Button up and work on a cure.

Asteroid impact that destroys surface life for 10,000 years? Good thing we have several self-sustaining independent ecosystems built underground.

Need a place for 100 million climate refugees? Good thing we know how to build settlements that require little more than bare land and solar power.

You are a breath of fresh air on this topic.

> why that issue isn't at the forefront of the discussion

Because there’s no real, serious discussion. No-one serious thinks there’s anything to this “flee to Mars” business; it’s pure fantasy.

He's such a dork. 250M to get Trump elected and now he's basically bought himself a presidency. I wonder if Trump hates the idea he's second fiddle. He's got to be grumpy about all the spotlight being on his new puppet master.

Alternatively, perhaps Trump has secured himself the use of a billionaires money? Personally I wonder who the puppet is in this situation.

Both are trying to use the other. Both are content, so far, with the current situation. But Trump is going to bail first, because his ego is more prickly. He's not going to be able to stand the constant comments that Musk owns him.

I agree this is the current plan from Trump adversaries. They recognize the combined power of Trump's POTUS authority and Musk's money and they're anxious to try and exploit any opening they can find no matter how small. Frankly this combination will be very damaging to left wing priorities and I can see why they're anxious to try and sow division.

Remember Trump has vowed to primary Republican reps who don't get in line with the current party agenda. Musk has vowed to fund these alternative candidates, even funding moderate democrats in blue districts. Trump will need Musk's money to make these things a reality.

From my reading of the news, its seems more of a made up "rift" than an actual thing, though I get the impression opposition badly wants to sell it as a factual thing. The more the left tries to sell the narrative that "Trump is Elon's bitch" the more they look desperate and afraid of the power the two of them working together represents. The Left appears to be properly terrified of this, even from my far off point of view just having access to The News. They're not scared because they're winning and I can see that from here, so surely the main people involved can see it too.

Its a pretty good life rule that the person screaming the loudest is generally losing. This is really just a variant of the ole "Putin has dirty pictures of Trump and he owns him!" narrative all over again.

Yup. The guy that led an insurrection to overturn an election is the guy you want to back? And now with 400B to “wield”?

Do you hate the “woke” left so much that you’ll let some guy sell everything good about America to its enemies?

I wonder if you're missing my point here. Whatever Trump did or didn't do, whatever he represents to you, whatever evil things he's been accused of ... 77 million American voters chose him over a willing and available alternative. Its seems clear that the whole TRUMP==BAD campaign failed miserably if an election victory is any indication.

My point in a nutshell is simple; calling Trump names didn't work the first time and may have even helped him get reelected. If he is to be hampered, its too late to totally stop him, is this really the way to do it? Quadruple down on a losing strategy yet again?

Attacking Trump as a person failed. Attacking Trump on policy didn't seem to fare much better. Whats left at this point? 77 million people looked at the charges levied against him, and then voted for him anyhow. The rational response to this from his opponents is to continue down the same failed path? Its just performative theatrics at this point I think. The die has been cast.

While it failed politically and people voted for him I think they did because they didn’t have a good enough alternative ans in our two party system that’s what you get. If you vote at all you end up picking the donkey or the elephant.

It doesn’t change the facts though. He’s a bad dude. (Convicted of sexual assault remember) A transactional dude. A guy who doesn’t care about America or anything. He just wanted to stay out of jail and make his friends rich.

Now we have weirdo right wing folks from silicon valley going to run things with a guy who admires our enemies and who has “a concept of a plan” on how to solve things.

It never ceases to amaze me how folks on HN saw Trump as their coming out moment: “oh it’s cool now I can let my friends right wing techno libertarian flag fly, the real estate tv mogul from NYC is now president and is allied with white supremacists and mysoginy. I like those things!” ;-)

I think people again didn’t have a viable alternative, didn’t think he could be so bad (he will be), and are just apathetic to enough and (erroneously) thinking that Biden’s policies on the economy — they blamed him for inflation — were so bad the tax cut and spend guy is going to do anything good for the economy.

82M people voted for Biden in 2020…

they might want to swap places in 4 years time...like their heroes Putin + Medvedev did 20 years back

Not possible in the US. Musk isn't a born American but a naturalized citizen. He can never be president without a constitutional amendment and that isn't going to happen ever.

hmm, is that so? i remember one Schwarzennegger who tried his chances a while ago

You're remembering incorrectly. Schwarzenegger, while elected governor of California, never made a run at the White House. As the other poster noted, Schwarzenegger couldn't do that even if he wanted to.

Constitutional change needs Congress and 2/3rds of the states. It’s not out of the realm of possibility.

I assume that also means a naturalized citizen has to be VP and Speaker of the House, as that’s the order of who becomes president if the higher up one dies? Or would we have a new election if it ends up being an ineligible individual?

the master is ALWAYS the one with the money, puppets are the rest :)

They won’t remain friends or partners in four years. I can almost guarantee it. I’m betting they’ll have a public falling-out within two years.

Elon strikes me as a mix of Howard Hughes, John McAfee, and Henry Ford: brilliant, eccentric, and volatile. I hope I'm wrong here, but I believe he might lose his mind within the next decade. Fortunately, SpaceX will manage without his direct involvement, and his role in advancing humanity’s path to Mars will be remembered. I'm willing to bet this is a net positive for us. His greatest strengths lie in securing government funding and getting seemingly impossible companies off the ground against all odds. But there will come a point when adult leadership will need to take over as he becomes distracted by culture wars or veers into fascism.

Trump has a simpler task: avoid starting a third world war over the next four years. After that, his power is gone and someone even scarier is likely to take his place.

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