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Comment by wenc | Hacker News Reader

I stopped drinking after I hit 40 and Starbucks was my third place (my favorite Starbucks was the one near DePaul University in Lincoln Park in Chicago).

I am now in the city of Starbucks (Seattle area) and am surprised that many of the Starbucks here (1) don't open late; (2) don't have comfortable seating; (3) aren't sufficiently lit (it's mostly dim, mood lighting -- I can't read paper books in most of them). I wonder if it's because Seattle people like their local spots (that also don't open late) that Starbucks had to optimize their revenue for to-go orders instead of sit-down ones.

This is really unfortunate. Howard Schultz was all bout the "third place".

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Supposedly the new CEO is aware the decline of Starbucks as a third place is an issue, but we'll see if anything changes. The business perspective of just doing drive-through and pick-up sounds great, but it loses the "experience" that made Starbucks revolutionary. If Starbucks coffee just turns into a transaction, I'm not sure how they can survive when Dunkin, McDonalds, and even Keurig do transactions better, and all sorts of local coffee shops do coffee better.

I spend a lot of money at Starbucks, but very little time. I think Starbucks’ brand was built when it was the opposite; now it’s just a commodity. The value is still there — get a reliable coffee extremely fast, and my toddler loves their egg bites which is a huge value in and of itself — but it’s not so much more valuable than Dunkin’ anymore.

The best “third place” that Starbucks ever created was Roy Street Coffee & Tea in Seattle. It had a great selection of drinks, good food, plenty of seating, and a vibrant atmosphere. Unfortunately, Starbucks decided against expanding on the concept and closed down the café in 2019.

Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.

Woah, I lived 3 blocks from there. I thought it was alright. We called it "fake starbucks."

It's a portmanteau but we call all the little sort of Starbucks "fauxbucks". You know the ones in gas stations, Target stores, etc.

I’ve done a lot of both screen and paper based work in coffee shops, including Starbucks, and the thing that’s scarred me after all these years is the constant playing of music. Even with ear plugs and over the ear muffs it can only cancel out so much. Am only able to spend maybe an hour or so doing anything in a coffee shop now - agree with all the rest of your points though

There used to be a great Starbucks in Kirkland that was 24hr. I am equally frustrated that there are no coffee shops open late even close to the universities in Seattle.

Oh the 24 hr Kirkland Starbucks is still there.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/UUsVjfy9MPeF3RwT9

There's another 24 hr one in Northgate.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/RxT4vwEDsZECTu2k7

So there's 2 in the entire greater Seattle area.

But you're right, there are very few places open late even in the U-district.

Interesting that the Northgate Starbucks closes for just 4 hours every week from Mon 10pm to Tue 2am.

SO recently finished 7 years of grad school at UW and we’re both happy to not spend much time around U dist at night. She still gets the police alerts and it’s not inspiring - such crazy violent things happening there all the time. In my opinion that could be a reason 24 hr businesses aren’t persisting in that area. But yes this would be a logical place for late night establishments

I’m really surprised about the Northgate location and it really doesn’t make sense to me. The McDonalds next to it is also 24 hour, so maybe it has to do something with being a rest stop for I5?

Salt Lake City oddly enough has (or had?) 24 hour coffee shops that you could hangout at.

I believe the one in Kirkland is not exactly 24 hrs, though close to it. Left the US in 2017, and as of that time, they'd close from 12am to 3am.

Nothing quite as disappointing as traveling to a new city for 6 am shift and finding out that there is not a single coffee shop open at that time

>I wonder if it's because Seattle people like their local spots (that also don't open late) that Starbucks had to optimize their revenue for to-go orders instead of sit-down ones.

The labor costs and risks of hosting people within your business, especially at later times, is more and more difficult to offset with revenue. Especially if a sufficiently large portion of the population opts to pay for the lower priced goods at to go businesses.

Last time I was in Seattle the Starbucks on 1st Ave (& University?) didn't have any seating at all. 90% of their business seemed to be online to-go orders (the O.G. Starbucks at Pike Place had several hundred people in line!).

Is that a third place? I thought third places were defined as the third "social" area - places you meet and talk with other people. If it's a place to drink and read, like a home away from home, I'm not sure that's the same thing but I'm not sure what to call it.

As far as I can remember, they all ditched seating during the pandemic and never added it back. But opening late has never been a Seattle strength.

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