Canada will do much better joining US (and distancing itself from declining EU and its disastrous policies). The US is much better managed; the results speak for themselves.
The streets here are clean, spotting a homeless person is borderline impossible even if you try, in US I've seen tents, bidonvilles, homelessness everywhere, drugged zombies as soon as you entered the wrong streets in basically every city.
There's much less anxiety around healthcare or education here, violence and crime are very different too. My 180k people city hasn't seen a murder (outside very few caused by family violence, which are virtually the only cause for murders in my country) in decades.
Actually now that I think about it, I also found Canada (where my wife has family that emigrated there 80 years ago) to be better in all those regards. Have you ever crossed from Canada to US at Niagara falls? If you did and walked more than 500 meters you know what I'm talking about.
Mind you, there's no doubt US does many things great, as an engineer and wannabe entrepeneur I know US would've given me more chances, but believe it or not, not everybody wants to live the american way and money isn't everything if you have to use it to feel safer and less anxious in guarded neighbourhoods like some of my best friends in US live in.
There's countless things that US does great, and that does awfully, different people and cultures may weigh the pros/cons differently.
> it's not a place [I] would recommend most people to live
Your recommendation (or lack thereof) carries little weight, then.
But to actually answer your question, there are many places in the US (urban, suburban, and rural) where fear of violent crime is not a major factor in the day-to-day life of most people. I don't know anyone who has been a victim of violent crime, and it does not feature prominently in conversations. In fact, the highly touristic areas in Europe seem to have more crime than anywhere I've personally been in the US, but I know better than to judge the entire continent by those outliers. I probably worry about as much about gang violence in south-side Chicago as you do about Romanian sex traffickers, or pickpockets in the 1st arrondissement of Paris.
But I too have felt no more threatened in numerous US urban and suburban cities than I have in many places in Europe - and the UK...
It's not without its problems but if it was _that_ bad I wouldn't have stayed...
I take your point, but this part isn't true. Canada is a little larger, and then there is also Mexico which is about 1/2 the size, so US is roughly 2/5ths of North America.
Canada is larger than the US but if the US extended its northern border 50 miles Canada wouldn’t have any population left.
And having a strong economy is generally a good thing -- there are jobs, which matters.
The US is fifth in the world in terms of incarceration rate (i.e., there are only 4 countries which imprison a larger portion of their population). The thirteenth amendment allows the US to enslave its imprisoned population (which they do, and it's a very lucrative business). The US also has a thing called the death penalty where they literally _kill_ the person convicted of a crime.
According to the world press freedom index, the US ranks 55th when it comes to freedom of the press.
I don't know if you know this, but the US has been holding immigrant kids in cages at the border. Started with Obama, increased under Trump, and then increased some more under Biden.
Guantanamo also still exists, but I suppose torturing civilians without formally charging them for a crime doesn't count against the freedom of US citizens.
By what metric does the US have a lot of freedom?
> Our universities are probably the best in the world
Good colleges aren't worth anything if only the owning class can afford to send their kids there. Going to college puts people into lifelong debt (in America, that is). Out of the top 10 universities in the world according to the QS world ranking, 4 are from the UK, 4 from the US, despite the UK having about a fifth of the population of the US.
> And having a strong economy is generally a good thing -- there are jobs, which matters.
There were jobs during slavery too (I mean the slavery from before 1865, not the 13th amendment slavery from today). Jobs are not an inherent good. About 40% of the homeless (in the US) have a job, but cannot afford housing.
Canadian cities are the cleanest of the three countries, but homelessness and drug use are just as prevalent in Canada as in the US. I don't remember seeing many addicts in Europe but there were certainly a lot of homeless refugees when I lived there. I guess you could argue that's not the fault of the host country, unlike the homelessness in Canada/US.
Other than that, the US cities I've lived in have felt safe and livable, with vibrant street life and plenty of great restaurants and events. I prefer urban neighborhoods which are close to the downtown core, but outside of it; the visible social problems seem to be very concentrated in certain areas, which can be avoided.
If by "guarded neighborhoods" you mean gated communities with full-time live security, I think your friends are major outliers. A very small minority of people live that way in America.
I do agree with you about "less anxiety around healthcare or education". My European friends see the world and life very differently. People don't feel guilty about living a normal life in the same way that some Americans seem to: the culture here screams "strive" and "excel", and I think that drives a lot of people to be miserable when they feel they are falling short of that expectation.
The ones that are weirdest to me is when you have people living in gated skyscrapers with homeless literally leaning against the sides of the building, so much wealth and destitution mere inches apart.
This literally can't be true every single large city in Canada is struggling with increasing homelessness right now.
Do you live in a cabin up in Muskoka??
I have stayed in Hamilton, Lake Ontario and traveled Toronto, Quebec area, etc.
Having lived on both sides of the border for many years, Canada first needs to improve its version of "universal healthcare" before making a pitch like this.
The gun violence in US is higher, but the chances of that impacting you are low, if you avoid problematic areas.
Your chances of gun violence are also greatly lowered by not having a gun.
Spot on. I'm quite well off but don't think I'd support a system where only the well-off get good treatment. Better to have all shoulders supporting the system for everyone. Even if that means going through lesser years (also since it's not like good healthcare stops altogether during that time), having the relatively rich as well as politicians also need to make use of the system makes a lot of things suddenly possible
The USA has pretty much the worst healthcare in the world. Much ahead of it but in 2nd last is Canada.
That being said, the general lockdown of the boarder after 9-11 has driven a lot of people who live close to the boarder nuts. Crossing the boarder used to be like crossing a state/province boarder. If you look at satellite photos of the boarder around Maine, NH, and VT, it's full of little country roads where you could cross unimpeded until 9-11, and private properties that go right up to the boarder.
There's even a golf course that's in Canada, but the driveway is on a US street. You're allowed to enter from the US, but they follow Canadian laws (specifically, the Canadian drinking age.)
Personally, I wish we could figure out how to resolve our (relatively minor) differences so we could keep an open boarder.
Perhaps because it’s like the weather; something massive and powerful that could crush you at any time but you can’t change it.
It's harder to cross into the US, than Canada, for reasons I don't want to discuss here.
I'll just leave it at this: It's really frustrating to have a long wait into your own country than any other country I've traveled to.
In the U.S., a cancer diagnosis can lead to bankruptcy, while treatment is free (or close to free) in most EU countries. Education is largely free as well, and you don't see people walking around armed like they’re in the Marine Corps. So, I'm not sure what benchmark we're using to measure this.
https://www.politico.eu/article/cancer-europe-america-compar...
And I’ve seen way more people walking around with military weapons in Europe than I ever have in the USA - to be fair, they were the literal armed forces of the country, but still exceptionally weird to see as an American.
Huge difference between Trump Round 1, 2016 and now, in terms of how this stuff is discussed.
I would say US is not a country for working (normal) people like me. I prefer to live in EU, now and forever.
The Republican party seems to view any new possible states as free congressional seats for the Democrats, so I can't see enough votes for such a thing regardless.
Just hang on - this isn't as crazy as it sounds!
Think about it:
- There would be a shared defense and infrastructure: NORAD already has the US and Canada tied at the hip for defense. Greenland, being strategically crucial to Arctic security, fits naturally into this alignment. Folding them into a single framework could simplify and strengthen North American defense.
- Economic integration's already there: the US and Canada are each other's largest trading partners. NAFTA (and now USMCA) means much of the heavy economic lifting is already done. Greenland’s resources are becoming increasingly important as Arctic access opens up.
- Population and resources balance out: Canada has land and resources but not enough people. The US has people and markets but strained resources. Greenland sits on untapped potential. There’s a complementary puzzle here that fits. Heck, I know a bunch of people that would move to Greenland in my circle of friends alone if it were a state of the Union.
Think about the plausibility, even if you don' think it's likely.
Sure, there's political gridlock in the US? Sure. But let’s not pretend Canadian politics are a beacon of stability. And Denmark’s hold on Greenland isn’t exactly ironclad. In unstable times, pragmatic unions can look attractive.
And yeah, there are a lot of cultural differentials, but flipping flap jacks, look at the cultural divide between California vs Indiana or TX vs Vermont. Mergers like this happen incrementally - closer military cooperation, shared Arctic development, economic harmonization.
Not saying this will/could happen tomorrow, but in a time of rethinking alliances, I think it’s less far-fetched than it sounds. If Europe can experiment with supranational governance, why can’t North America????
What are the realistic roadblocks here beyond just "politics?"
Canada I understand.
But why Greenland, other than the fact that Trump saw it in the window and decided he wanted it? The US already has a base there, it doesn't seem to be that vital to our strategic interests.
- Strategic Arctic positioning. It's central to Arctic geopolitics. While the Arctic ice melts, new shipping lanes are opening up, and countries are vying for control over these routes and untapped resources. The US already maintains a military presence at Thule Air Base, but integrating Greenland more formally would secure this position and reduce the risk of competing interests (think Russia and China making moves in the region - which they are very, very much doing).
- Resource potential. Greenland's rich in rare earth minerals and many others that are critical to modern tech and defense industries. These materials are currently dominated by Chinese markets. Greenland’s dev could diversify supply chains and reduce Western reliance on Chinese exports. This is SO insanely critical right now.
- You might not like this one, but: think geopolitical stability... Denmark’s grip on Greenland isn’t absolute. There’s been growing interest within Greenland towards greater autonomy, and while full independence is really complicated and economically (ultra) risky, stronger ties to North America would absolutely offer an appealing middle ground and protect the people of Greenland itself.
Ultimately if we ignore Greenland it feels like we're leaving a crucial puzzle piece out.
If Greenland is that important, we already have all of the money if we wanted to buy it, and all of the tanks and planes and nuclear submarines if we didn't want to take no for an answer.
Now THERE’S a price range!
For the cost of only $14 per American per year, we could pay everyone in Greenland $85k/yr for life. It’s $4.5/bln a year.
Greenland has already obtained some independence from Denmark and is looking for more. It’s unlikely they sell themselves to the USA directly but something that is effectively the same with a fig leaf on it could certainly happen.
And if actual world-scale conflict broke out, it would de facto be a US protectorate at best, and just another territorial acquisition at worst.
Economic incentives only go so far—there’s a cultural and political dynamic at play. If Greenland leans towards more autonomy, stronger US ties as a protectorate might happen naturally without needing to 'buy' anything outright. If they drift away from Denmark, North America becomes the obvious landing zone.
The reason Canada and the US are not closer than they already already -- which is very close -- comes down to the same story it has for over 200 years: massive political cultural divide.
"Peace, Order, and Good Government" vs "Don't Tread On Me" or whatever.
American expansionism, manifest destiny, and the populist politics that go with it only sell well to a minority here. This is a country that has deep loyalist roots and a long history of preference for our Westminster style gov't and the balances it has.
Not because we love being ruled by a king -- the monarchy is not popular -- but because we don't like to be ruled by demagogues and militia-men. I say "we", but of course there's people who would disagree, like anywhere else.
If this was still the Obama-era US I think the case for closer ties could be made -- a currency union, perhaps, some kind of Shengen-style border arrangement. But as long as US politics is taking the form it is right now, not a chance. I, for one, want nothing to do with it.
But yeah, Greenland's not just Denmark's icy backyard... it’s a strategic Arctic outpost sitting on rare earth minerals and shipping lanes that are about to become prime real estate as the ice melts. The US already camps out at Thule Air Base for a reason, and with Russia and China eyeing the region hard, folding Greenland into a North American framework isn’t about expansionism, but rather it’s about locking down resources and supply chains before someone else does. Greenland’s been flirting with more autonomy anyway, and when the time comes, stronger North American ties could offer stability without the economic freefall of full independence. Ignoring Greenland while the Arctic heats up (literally and politically) is leaving the back door wide open.
The people of Denmark and Canada don't want to be part of the US. How about that?
Honestly though, what do you think about China’s own 'manifest destiny' moves in Africa, Brazil, the US, Canada, and basically everywhere else?
It's "get my country's name out of your mouth" material.
Our country has problems, yours is broken.
It's been broken since its inception. Giving every state an equal representation in the Senate and an outsized representation in Congress meant that it was ALWAYS going to break.
I the 70s a few people tried to change this by abolishing the electoral college and ensuring you vote directly for the president at a 1 to 1 ratio. Unfortunately, that was shot down by some selfish liberals who thought they'd get more representation in particular situations (they won't for anything more than shilort term). There hasn't been a proper chance to fix it since.
Now Democrats simply do not have any power whatsoever. If Republicans don't want to let something pass, they just hold it up in the Senate. Something Mitch McConnell has done relentlessly.
Oh, and since the senate has to approve Supreme Court appointments, they've taken control of that too. McConnell blocked Obama's picks, using the excuse that it was an election YEAR. That handed the pick to Trump. That evil little man then let Trump have appointments much closer to an election.
Now your Supreme Court is fully stacked with Republicans. Some of which engage in open corruption.. And they're wiping out decades old rights. Anything is on the table.
Youre living in a country that has fallen into fascism and don't even know it.
Also, states being able to run their elections has allowed for an absurd level of corruption. Some states specifically design their voting districts for a particular outcome.. Like come on..
Anyway, I'm hoping for a CANZUK alliance or joining Europe. I will reluctantly flee the country if our sovereignty is threatened by the US.. Which is unfortunately looking more and more possible.
- Trudeau’s leadership is on life support, with his own party circling the wagons to push him out. Even Liberal MPs are openly calling for his resignation. The country’s direction feels more dictated by party infighting than any grand vision.
- Economically, Canada’s in a rougher spot. GDP contracted last quarter, the Canadian dollar’s getting steamrolled by the USD, and political uncertainty is scaring off energy investments. Meanwhile, the US economy is actually growing. That’s not exactly a great look for the 'better system.'
- Housing? A total disaster. Young Canadians are stuck renting indefinitely, and wages haven’t kept pace with living costs. By comparison, even in US cities with high real estate prices, the economic mobility is still better. I know twenty-somethings who are buying homes, living life, and having large families. One friend is 25, already has three kids, and owns a home—stable as can be.
- And don't forget groceries... food prices in Canada have been soaring to the point where one in five families are skipping meals or turning to food banks just to get by. That’s not just bad policy, it’s a slow-rolling humanitarian crisis!
I’m not saying the US isn’t broken. Sure, it’s a mess in a lot of ways, but which country isn't right now?
But if we’re comparing corpses, at least one of them still twitches. Canada’s problems aren’t just political, they’re economic and cultural... and there’s no clear path out. Maybe that stomach-turning thought of joining the US will feel a bit different if things keep sliding downhill.
And about the US being 'broken since inception' - come on. Canada’s flaws run just as deep, if not deeper in certain areas:
- Political gridlock? Trudeau’s barely hanging on, and Parliament is a powder keg of internal rivalries. Party leadership fights dictate policy more than voters do.
- Representation imbalance? Alberta’s voice gets drowned out, while Quebec rides on political privilege. Sounds familiar, right?
- Judicial interference? Trudeau’s government meddling with court decisions drove his own Attorney General to resign. LOL
- Corruption? From the SNC-Lavalin scandal to WE Charity, Canada isn’t exactly shy about political favoritism and backroom deals.
- And don’t even get me started on voter disenfranchisement! Canada’s own electoral system ensures whole swaths of the population feel ignored. I mean, this is what I’m hearing from Canadians, so you’re not gonna convince me otherwise. I’ve even heard talk of civil war scenarios if the government doesn’t change, and that’s saying a LOT for Canadians. You know it’s bad when folks known for telling each other to go to hell with a smile stop smiling - and forget to apologize halfway through.
I get the appeal of CANZUK or joining Europe in theory, but let’s be real, Canada’s fate isn’t going to be saved by cozying up to the Commonwealth. If Canada collapses under its own weight, it won’t be US 'fascism' that’s the biggest threat. It’ll be watching foreign powers scoop up influence while we argue about which utopian club to join!
C'mon. Get real.
You sound like you've been talking to a pretty far right-wing echo chamber.
I'm from Alberta originally and ... no... not drowned. Shrill, and a with a strong persecution complex, but... very well heard. And with way more power than it pretends.
There are certainly forces... American forces included... that would like to characterize things the way you are. For their own interests.
The problem is, this isn't accurate.
I’m not saying Alberta’s voice is literally drowned out in the sense that it’s silent. It’s drowned out in the sense that for all the noise, policy-wise, Alberta’s concerns often get sidelined while other regions take priority. That frustration isn’t imaginary. You might be comfortable with how things are, but not everyone is.
Shrill? Persecution complex? Maybe. Or maybe people are just fed up and tired of feeling like they’re being patronized when they point out legitimate issues. You can call it overblown, but the cracks are there whether you acknowledge them or not.
Canada needs to move away from the Americans as much as possible. Easier said than done given that America is an economic powerhouse.