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Comment by nojito | Hacker News Reader

SQL is king and history has shown non-sql languages are not good which causes many non-sql DBMS's to adopt sql eventually.

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Many non-SQL DBs had query languages that were broken Javascript-ish versions of SQL. Of course, this is wrong, and people will eventually adopt SQL instead. But if your data model isn't anything like relational DBs, non-SQL makes a ton of sense. OP seems to miss exactly this, that the Redis query language is shaped on the Redis data model, that is basically alien to the relational model.

The idea behind Redis data model is that "describe data" then "query those data in random ways" is conceptually nice but practically will not model very well many use cases. SQL databases plagued tech with performance issues for decades because of that. So Redis says instead: you need to put your data thinking about fundamental things like data structures and access times and the way you'll need those data back. And the API reflects this.

You don't have to automatically agree with that. But you have to understand that, then provide your "I'm against" arguments. Especially if you are in front of young people listening to you.

Agreed. Many noSQL-boom-era databases eventually bolted on a SQL-esque layer, but that was also because they were mostly also all targeting "enterprise database" use cases and customers who both expected that and whose use cases largely fit with it. So, there was a lot of pressure to conform to norms when the advantage of not doing so wasn't immediately self-evident.

We have a database [1] and query language [2] that's tailored to storing & querying trace/telemetry data produced by different layers and components of cyber-physical systems for systems engineers to analyze, verify, and validate what a complex system is doing. It's not quite a traditional relational problem. It's not quite a traditional time series problem. It's not quite a traditional graph problem.

Addressing the way that systems engineers think about their domain in an effective way required coming up with something different. Are there caveats and rough edges? Sure. But, they're a lot less pernicious and onerous than the alternative of trying to leverage a bunch of ill-fitting menageries of different solutions.

Redis is fit-for-purpose. So, it makes sense that its query interface would also express that.

[1] https://docs.auxon.io/modality/

[2] https://docs.auxon.io/speqtr/

>But if your data model isn't anything like relational DBs, non-SQL makes a ton of sense. OP seems to miss exactly this, that the Redis query language is shaped on the Redis data model, that is basically alien to the relational model.

Sure...but all roads lead back to SQL eventually. Another recent example also mentioned in the OP is BigTable adopting SQL.

> but all roads lead back to SQL eventually

No it doesn't. SQL is designed for relational databases.

For other forms i.e. JSON, Graph, Key/Value they all use other query languages.

If you write code that uses a hash map, would you insist on using SQL to query it? This makes no sense.

For what it's worth, SQL kind of sucks. It's just the de facto choice because it's extremely widespread and good enough for 80% of the use cases out there and what's missing can be kludged on top of it, either by specific DB vendors, or by various extensions.

It's not too hard to come up with alternatives that improve upon individual aspects of SQL like https://prql-lang.org/ but the barrier of entry is about as high as trying to make a huge social media network, most attempts will remain niche.

Then again, most software kind of sucks, it's just that some of it also works. For example, the Linux FHS reads like an overcomplicated structure that is the way it is for historical reasons, but works in practice.

SQL (and RDBMS in general) has its limitations, particularly with regards to recursive operations.

An extended Datalog[1] can provide performance optimizations not available to RDBMS.

[1]: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3639271

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