The Zombocom Problem
newsletter.squishy.computer
newsletter.squishy.computer
But it is remembered first and foremost as an email system, a feature that's fairly trivial to implement once you have a replicated database and a UI on top of it that can display lists and text. But it had to be an email system first because you can't sell something that can do anything if it doesn't do anything.
The first time I saw a PLATO terminal was wandering through one of the engineering buildings at UIUC in '78. I was captured by the "friendly orange glow." There were some people there so I snuck in and started talking to them. I was able to convince them to give me an account on the down-low... don't tell anyone about it 'cause I don't want to get kicked off the system. So I would swing by there or the library on off-peak times so I wouldn't be accused of using the system for frivolous things like music while other people were doing SERIOUS work.
It turns out, part of their plan was to give a real account to anyone who wandered by. It was back when we really weren't sure what personal computing was going to look like and they were a university so they experimented with letting high school students, random musicians, liberal arts students, people from town... anyone who asked for an account pretty much got one.
One day I learned the new-ish terminals were run by an 8080 CPU and had some I/O off to the side (I think mostly to run a slide projector.) I mentioned this would be great way to control a network of synthesizers and one of the guys said "Oh! You should talk to Sherwin!" -- they were talking about Sherwin Gooch who made the "Gooch Synthetic Woodwind" that hooked up to the PLATO terminal and made wood-windy sounds. I went looking for him but all I found was a box of parts and a story about how he had left town to go to Florida State.
Several years later I'm at Florida State working for Paul Dirac (this was right before he passed away, so probably '85.) And hey! They have PLATO terminals at Florida State. I was musing about using them to control synthesizers again to people in Tallahassee and one of them says "Hey! You should talk to Sherwin! He made some musical instrument to hook up to the old terminals!" And I went looking for the mythical Sherwin only to discover a box of parts and a story that he had taken a job in Sili Valley.
After a decade of working for Bell Canada, I finally make it out to Sili Valley for a job tuning modular exponentiators for PowerPC devices. This was probably '98. And I go visit a few friends at CCRMA (Stanford's Center for Computer Research in Music and Acoustics.) I was peripherally involved with psycho-acoustic research at Bell Canada, so it's not a complete stretch for me to be there. I'm chatting with a friend I met in Tallahassee, who happened to be working in Palo Alto. I eventually mention PLATO and the Gooch Virtual Woodwind and my friend says "Oh yea! You should talk to Sherwin!" And I'm ready for him to say something like "but he moved to outer mongolia..." but instead he says "and he's sitting right over there."
So after 20 years I finally got to have my conversation with Sherwin about computer music and PLATO. Though honestly, we mostly talked about techniques for solving math problems.
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Fast forward another 15 years and someone launched cyber1.org, which is an online emulated CDC6700(?) running the PLATO software. Just download the pterm package and you can talk to it. You could, apparently, use your old login id so people could find you on the system again. I couldn't remember by group authenticator so it took a few days to get logged in. But what I didn't realize is they way they got everyone's account info was they restored backup tapes from various PLATO installations.
I logged in and was presented with pnotes files from about 30 years earlier.
Surreal.
And it gets weirder because one day I'm in the Living Computer Museum in Seattle and they have a PLATO terminal on display. You were encouraged to use the DEMO account to look at what old networked systems were like, but just for fun I try my FSU account info and... viola! I'm in my FSU account from 1985 on an actual PLATO terminal downstairs talking to an actual (non-emulated) restored CDC6700 upstairs. Like cyber1, they got people's account info from the same backup tapes.
Even so, it did have some app templates that came with it back in those early days - a helpdesk ticketing system, a sales CRM, discussions. I forget what they all were, but there was definitely a base of examples aside from email for people to start with.
I just have a terrible experience using Notes. I have either somehow erased or locked away most of this memory but I remember getting back to Outlook with a job at a different place and thinking I'll never bad mouth excel again. Yes, notes was that terrible for me.
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I became a qmail fanatic around 1999 and enjoyed running a smart mail server but as we got into the early 2000's I experienced a series of crises involving worms, viruses, malware, spam, deliverability and such. Today I want nothing to do with running a mail server! It's not a problem where you can just invest once and it is done but instead it is like one of those service games.
I like the idea of email as a paradigm for asynchronous workflows, and if you're doing business by email (as in CRM) it is useful. On the other hand today the email market is pretty tied up with the likes of Gmail and Outlook
Some 'frameworks' or 'engines' budded off from work on a concrete problem, e.g. Django first for a specific CMS, Rails from Basecamp, Unreal Engine from Unreal the game. Work's not as much of an 'engine' as those are, but it's definitely turned out a big focus is on how customers can build their own stuff (both in the frontend and the data side) and integration. But for anyone to care about all that it has to be an app first!
https://Intercoin.org/applications
Maybe I was just a crazy socialist LOL
Here is the why:
Similarly, with a software solution, you need to make it integrate into an existing stack used in the market, or else build the layers to make it something that can fit neatly into a business's processes. E.g. if there's already an established market for engines or frameworks, then a business can use your conforming engine almost plug-and-play. Otherwise you have to build the app and UI layers on top to make it end-user-facing.
Once you've achieved some success in a vertical or layer (e.g. appointment bookings for salons), you can abstract the core solution/framework and start applying it to other verticals or build adapter layers to start attacking other layers (e.g. appointment bookings for everything).
Sandstorm had a clear goal of getting critical mass and changing personal servers forever and I think in many ways it was close.
You're falling into the Zombocom trap when your initial value proposition is the same as Zombocom's.
It also did this to a certain extent, from the post:
> This customer acts as the edge-of-the-wedge for expanding into adjacent use cases (next best customer is music)
These include various types of content (VideoPress, portfolio plugins, podcasts, custom post types), shopping (WooCommerce), and forums (BuddyPress, bbPress)
However, it isn't quite a general purpose self-hosted app platform. Something limited it from continuing it going into adjacent use cases, and I think part of it is that its plugins still tie into a system that's still oriented towards blog/CMS use cases.
In my opinion though, it did kinda fall into this. It was an extremely secure and well thought out way to run concurrent user web apps. But none of the apps there were better than the proprietary Google suite or equivalent, and for self hosters, the need to explicitly port the app vs the simpler but less secure and less integrated 'just run a docker container' meant it lost there too.
There's also some limitations on what the apps can do, for example, I don't think Sandstorm has a good story for searching and indexing the contents of grains, the way other services could.
I think the killer app idea at the time was hospitals or governments with strict regulations and it didn't land well enough.
This was good, and goes against the Zombocom problem.
However, as you said they didn't address self-hosting as well as they could have. I don't think it was because of other domains, but because they were envisioning people sharing them or paying for a cloud host, and didn't try to emphasize only apps that don't guzzle CPU, memory, or storage. Rocket.Chat is a MongoDB app. GitLab is another one: https://apps.sandstorm.io/app/zx9d3pt0fjh4uqrprjftgpqfwgzp6y...
Similarly on Dokku you wouldn't have apps sharing a database instance. If you had two apps that needed a database, you'd start two postgres instances.
I don't think they ever failed to see the Zombocom problem or attempt to avoid it. Curating apps for security made since. However, it didn't see enough use for them to add lots more apps to their library.
Idk though, I stand by it. Any company that wanted a chat app could get slack or skype or teams instead, and they are backed by a big business who assures they're safe, come with desktop apps that have pop up notifications, and were quicker to boot up, and frankly are better.
And, personality or not, any app that was ported to Sandstorm you can still run off Sandstorm too.
The killer features are one single account for everything (ala Microsoft's suite which also has that), the potential for some very cool interoperability that never quite reached its full potential, and better security, which not enough people/companies were willing to sacrifice other desirable traits for, apparently.
It started as a "blogging tool" and only that - it still is to some extent in 2024: it still has traces of "blogs" in its DBA, code, templating and so on.
It was successfull exactly because of that focus. As opposed to Joomla! and Drupal and many others that never even made it. WordPress gained a "plugin system" but later than most others and far more limited. In the beginning plugins were really to customize your blog - but it was still very much a blog.
When blogging wasn't that popular anymore - relatively, it pivoted into more of a brochureware CMS by leveraging the plugin system, but core was very much still a blog. I can't recall how many requests I had from customers to "remove this confusing blog-thing, we don't use that don't we". It could not be removed.
Then, after a while, it became the everything CMS. Slowly and rediculously clumsy. It still is. It's far worse at "being a webshop" than almost all dedicated webshop software one can choose instead. It's rediculously inadequate for anything close to "social media" - or user-generated content (due to its depenance on- and design of- the caching, mostly).
So, WP may be some "everything platform" by popularity and common use. But it's both bad at this and never predetermined to be that.
That's the crucial question. Because the important parameter to "what is best ?" isn't the "day and age", but the exact use-case, and to lesser extent, requirements, existing stacks, team capabilities etc etc.
If you have a company with 58 wordpress instances, then I'm pretty sure the best option for almost any use-case for the 59th instance is "wordpress".
But if you are an artist that makes and sells bracelets from local sea-shells, with little interest in learning technical stuff, you are almost certainly better of with an etsy and/or shopify. If only for the TCO.
And the bakery around the corner who just needs their opening hours and some nice impression in the form of a video, story and some images (brochureware) online, wix, squarespace or one of its many (open source) competitors. Or, if you just need a quick three-page landingpage for your tech startup, in a team of mostly software engineers, a hugo or jekyll site is quite probably by far preferable.
There are so many alternatives that "do one thing and do it well (or better than the generalists without focus)". It's really about having the ability to filter through these instead.
Thanks for that. It’s spot-on.
Completely agree with this. The person who starts building the ultimate meta-framework or meta-API as step 1 is almost inevitably doomed to failure if they can't articulate a specific problem they solve better for their users.
So even for personal projects, what’s most important is the ugly MVP that does the thing. It’s only after that works that I clean it up.
IMO this defer-until-needed approach depends a bit on having better tooling to use whenever the rework happens. Stuff like languages with statically-checkable types, good "Find Usages" IDEs, tests that exercise the overall architecture, etc.
When you can't count on those things, a constant gradual approach is needed to compensate.
We should still call it "overengineering" and not "insight". It was a risk and a compromise.
Amazon is full of zombocominess. It's not a bad thing. The name itself is very zombo, _it can be anything_.
The book selling is a great MVP for their final goal, a huge wide ass platform. It's all over the company history (what they bought, how the grew).
You can design stuff in all kinds of weird ways. The first iPhone was a zombomachine. It had everything: it was a phone, it was an ipod, it was an internet device, it was a platform...
Platforms are awesome and if you have the resources you should totally build with one in mind.
"Building a platform" is such an X. A high risk/reward goal where lots of failure is expected.
Programming languages, operating systems, hypertext, www. The earliest versions may have been small and made for a specific need... but the generalization attempts came soon and excitable zombocon words came out of mouth.
So sure... targeting your new programming language to a specific use case is a strong starting strategy. But.. it's a programming language. A platform.
The whole information superhighway was a big zombocon in the 90s. That's why the parody resonated in the first place.
I'm not entirely convinced that general platformish ideas cannot succeed. They're just hard and tend to attract the naive because if the massive potential.
I think most of us have had the issue with being told to "Write me a Facebook."
I've done exactly what the article talks about, except not for something that makes money. It's a free platform that Serves a fairly neglected demographic.
Starting small is key.
I always say "Success breeds success." I set humble goals, succeed, then raise the bar on the next one.
This is really good for mentoring folks, as well. Get them used to succeeding. It may start with stupidly simple stuff, but, before you know it, they are doing really complex stuff.
Two little boys found a five dollar bill on the street and went to the store to spend it. The first little boy came up to his friend with his arms full of candy. His friend just had a box of tampons. "Why do you want that, instead of candy?" asked the first boy. "Look here" said the second boy. "If we buy this we can go swimming and hiking and horseback riding...."
We were trying to sell an engine and quickly learned that the Tampon Sale fails spectacularly. We had to pivot to vertical solutions.
[insert list here]
No offense, I'm from GenX, we were doing those things before Bezos came along in fact that was the norm. See VisiCalc one paragraph up for an example. Attempting to create markets for your product like with the Metaverse or blockchain solutions versus just creating products for an actual market that already exists is a relatively new phenomena in the industry. I don't know why we started doing this to begin with.
Because Steve Jobs said:
> People don't know what they want until you show it to them.
and too many people wrongly believe that they are as smart as Steve Jobs.
More realistically, everyone knows the best you can get with your own little thing is bought out. That is not enough for many smart people’s ego.
To extrapolate further: trying to be all things to all people didn't originate with any particular generation, or even in the software business. Companies have been trying to please too many customers forever, only to either finally settle on the right demographic or fail.
Oh, finally somebody said it, thanks to heaven! Template "product mindset" with only data-driven way and unshakeable faith in the sacred custdev turn as a curse for interesting products and caused a problem of mass creation stereotypical products an gray, dull, soulless startups with only marketing packaging. But this inside-way is a really like some lost components of the product magic.
I am glad author is realizing this is bad! They state their goal is to build a system that is "pliable, re-shapable, open-ended, true to its materials as a universal machine" which is as close to zombocom as it gets.
[0] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/04/21/dont-let-architect...
Understand the environment (market conditions, constraints, fundamental enabling technology, economics, the macro) both now and in the future. The undeniable deep currents.
Look for companies solving a relatively specific, significant, painful problem, particularly one that is a barrier to future success/riches from the developing market it enables/supports. E.g. DWDM telecoms hardware supported the explosion of the Internet. Something you can do some diligence on to figure out the real questions around it.
Once you have a list of companies/founders, look to see if a sub-group is emerging from the gaggle. Focus on those 2-3.
Finally, ask yourself "what is the google on the moon" [1] whiteboard for this company. Meaning, how big can this be, where can this go, what (in those days) could be their 2nd, 3rd, 4th product.
[1] https://www.theregister.com/2006/03/08/you_only_search_twice...
Spreadsheets definitely feel more like a platform. They aren't specific to what they started out on - they're very general purpose. The metaphor of "grid of numbers you can do stuff with" is extremely not-product-specific.
Only with the addition of macro languages did they become do-everything platforms.
Bezo’s approach is sublime. It holds two seemingly irreconcilable insights in tension and transcends either lesser alternative:
Come on.
Step 1. Be born with silver spoon in mouth
I think the article is right in that if you don't have a clear business idea ("we're building a platform"), the odds are even worse. Except when they aren't, because in some niches, you actually have customers who want a platform. Cloud computing is an obvious example. It's just not the general case for consumer stuff.
I think Cloud computing as a successful business comes from the same process as suggested though. It's hard to build the platform as a business by itself.
Amazon's cloud is an offshoot of their internal elastic computing needs. Google's cloud sort of is too. Microsoft's cloud is an offshoot of their enterprise software business, same with Oracle's. IBM has been renting computers to businesses since like forever, but they used to make calculators and typewriters. I've never understood what Salesforce does, but I dunno, now it does it in the cloud rather than customer hosted?
There's some maybe purer cloud businesses, but mostly they started with a simpler hosting model and expanded into cloudy offerings.
If steam was always meant to be an all the games store, it certainly didn't start that way. When it launched, it was only for buying/using Valve's games, and it expanded later.
Maybe hundreds. Maybe not. We (the initial amzn team of bezos, myself and shel kaphan) were certainly not looking at any others that I recall besides bookstacks who had a telnet-based online bookstore.
I think people overlook the role of luck here. Bezos was simultaneously very smart but also incredibly lucky to be "the guy who was doing books on the web". It really was the ideal product for the first large scale online retail, and Bezos brought a lot of imagination and energy to the effort. But if it had not have been him, it would have been someone else, who likely would have been more or less as successful.
Personally, I think that Bezos' relentless focus on customer service was the biggest factor in amzn's early success, combined with his near-insane quality standards for the people he was willing to hire.
- a shopping cart which kept my choices forever. I remember a startup clone about 20+ years ago here in Europe, whose shopping cart automatically cleared after 24 hours. That was annoying if you wanted to look for some reviews for a book later in, before deciding to buy.
- the suggestions engine "customers who bought this also bought..." was excellent 20 years ago, especially for niche products. It helped me find a lot oft interesting music, once CDs where added to the shop.
- customer comments/reviews on products. And comments on reviews, correcting facts more often than not.
Most of this started to degrade years later. No comments on reviews any more, no downvotes on bad reviews, fake reviews, "sponsored" products "suggested" in extreme, etc.
There are a lot of ideas that sound good. Far fewer that are good. Being able to tell the difference makes it much more likely that you're on a plausible path to success.
Another way to see the point is to remember that it is better to make something that a few people really want than that a lot of people would like a little bit. An app is more likely to fit that bill than a platform.