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Comment by williamtrask | Hacker News Reader

Having lived in both rural and urban settings, I'm not sure the isolation you describe would be as correlated as you think. People in rural areas still hang out with one another (and even... alot) and people in cities still isolate themselves.

To follow that line further, I'd argue that the fact that rural living gives you less choice in company increases the degree to which you invest in the relationships that happen to be around. Consequently, rural living can create a greater sense of intimacy and companionship than the bustle of a city where there's always a new face around the corner (if you get bored of the old faces).

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> rural living gives you less choice in company increases the degree to which you invest in the relationships that happen to be around

I lived in New York at some point, and experienced the opposite of this first hand. In my experience, in NYC, it's easy to end with a lot of acquaintances but few real close friends.

At least in the social circles I moved around, everyone was always looking for "the next thing". There was an intense sense of impermanence. The next apartment, because the current one isn't great. The next job, because one can always do better. The next friend, because there's always more people to meet.

Especially in a city as romanticised as NYC, where a lot of people arrive with the expectation to live their best lives, make it big, and/or meet the most interesting people, I think people get used to the idea that something better is always around the corner.

I’m curious, do you live on a farm, or a suburb?

Villages and small towns exist.

Yeah but on the census is your area rural or urban?

Lots of people LARP as rural despite living in an urban area.

Big difference between a small town a truly rural. My friend lives in a rural place; it's a full 30min drive to the grocery store on one lane each way highways. There's like six restaurants in 80mi.

You are kind of missing the point. You can have a small rural town where the people in the town generally all live in/around the town but between that town and the next town over might be 1-2 hours.

In that type of small town you still have quick access to your necessities and you can walk to your neighbors' houses but once you get out of the bounds of your small town it might be 30 minutes before you see the next building, an hour to the next small town, and 4-6 hours to the nearest city or large town.

You are kind of missing the point. You can live in a small town that might be 1-2 hours separated by the next town and still not be "rural". You're still living an urban life, not a rural life. It's not like you need your town to be >1M people for it to be "urban". There's small town urban, there's a big city urban, and there's rural.

Do you actually live in a place statistically considered urban or rural? If you have multiple chain restaurants in your town, you're almost assuredly not "rural". If you can see your neighbor's front door, you're probably not rural. If you feel the need to erect a privacy fence so your neighbors can't see you, you're probably not rural.

> If you have multiple chain restaurants in your town, you're almost assuredly not "rural".

By this standard, there are no rural communities east of the Mississippi. Is that congruent with what you intend to say?

I've definitely visited places which are rural which are East of the Mississippi. I have family who actually live in forests and on large farms who don't live anywhere near chain restaurants. Places where you can't even see the neighbor's fence line from your front porch. But the vast majority of places I know and have visited are urban. If there's multiple chain hotels, once again probably not rural.

Over 80% of the US population lives in an urban area. And yet so many think they live "rural" because their town isn't NYC or SF.

https://www.pewresearch.org/decoded/2019/11/22/evaluating-wh...

31% of people who live in NCHS defined suburban areas think they live in rural areas. They LARP as cowboys living in urban areas. I'm surrounded by them.

https://youtu.be/6q_BE5KPp18

You're being needlessly pedantic. The top-level comment is saying that they could only live in a big city for {reasons}—it's very very clear that a small town of 5000 doesn't count for them. In that context, the commenter that started this subthread is clearly using "rural" to describe everything that isn't in a big city—places where there are hour-sized gaps between small towns count as rural when it's used to distinguish from "big city".

Trying to insist on a different dividing line between categories is not useful in this context where OP was already clear that they believe a small town doesn't work for them.

> In that context, the commenter that started this subthread is clearly using "rural" to describe everything that isn't in a big city

That's not the term for rural though. That's small towns and villages, not "rural". These are real words with real meanings. If I started saying the furry 30lb animal in my house that goes "bark" is an elephant it's not the right term to use and I'd welcome you calling out my improper usage.

Most Americans have never really experienced "rural" living.

But I guess you'd prefer for people to just continue to ignorantly use improper terms. Better get off the computer tonight and fly my elephant around the galaxy. Or walk my dog around the block. Words have no meanings anymore, it's all pedantic.

Which definition of "rural" are you referring to?

NCHS codes, RUCC codes, census designated places, ZIP code designations, take your pick. All of those are generally OK by me. Something other than just "small towns and villages exist", as both easily get classified as urban or suburban.

I've got loads of data backing up my assertion tons people think they live in a rural area don't live in a statistically classified rural area. People overly misuse the term rural and don't really understand a truly rural area.

> Something other than just "small towns and villages exist", as both easily get classified as urban or suburban.

Even if you're being pedantic (which, as noted, is pointless and silly), small towns aren't necessarily urban or suburban. For the census, 2000 housing units or a population of 5000 are required to count, and my town is the only one that made it onto the census list within an hour of me. 20+ small towns, 6 county seats, only 1 urban area. And that urban area has only 10% of the total population of those six counties! In other words: 90% of the people within an hour of me live in rural areas even according to the census.

And, again, as noted, I think it's silly to insist on a term of art in colloquial usage. Most people, on hearing what I just said, would agree that my town is a rural town in the middle of rural counties. But even if we do use pedantic definitions, you're objectively wrong.

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/guidance/g...

So instead of all this complaining of me being a pedant you could have replied to this question with just a "yes" and far fewer ink would have been spilled. Who was really being pointless and silly in this exchange?

> Yeah but on the census is your area rural or urban?

> And, again, as noted, I think it's silly to insist on a term of art in colloquial usage

I disagree. If you ever call the furry creature in my home an elephant I'll correct your usage regardless of if you somehow feel it's the proper colloquial usage. Using the term incorrectly is using the term incorrectly. If we just make up whatever "rural" means to you personally then it'll be hard to actually use real statistics to understand our populations and cities.

If we're just going to go by vibes for our definition of rural, tons of places can be rural. I live a short walk from a fishing hole, there's a big wooded area near me, loads of big pickups driving around, people in cowboy boots and cowboy hats everywhere, I drive past farms every day, and I'm constantly next to a large horse stable. I guess I'm in a rural area! If I get a few friends to agree and use the term I guess it's right. What's that? It's a city of a population of 120k and a density of >4,000/sq mi and is deep in one of the largest US metros? Hmm, doesn't sound very rural, but it's vibing right, so must be.

It's absurd 30% of people who live in suburbs think they live in a rural area, and it does affect their lives.

> So instead of all this complaining of me being a pedant you could have replied to this question with just a "yes" and far fewer ink would have been spilled.

While we're being pedantic, no ink was spilled on this conversation. Let's not invent a definition of ink that includes pixels on a screen.

The pedantry is the problem. That you were wrong even in your pedantry is entirely unsurprising because people who are being pedantic almost invariably are—people who actually are experts on a topic generally recognize it to be complicated enough that it's not worth trying to be perfectly precise in casual speech.

So in my first comment I didn't feel the need to waste time address the merits of your claims—that would only validate the invalid approach to discourse—but when you doubled down (twice!) I decided to humor you and sure enough, you were wrong.

> If we just make up whatever "rural" means to you personally then it'll be hard to actually use real statistics to understand our populations and cities.

Agreed. So let's not invent a definition of rural that says that small towns and villages "easily get classified as urban or suburban" and then try to use that as a hammer to tell people they're wrong about what type of environment they live in. :)

Edit: you added a whole paragraph after I replied, but it doesn't change anything. The environment you describe would not be called a small town or a village by anyone, even those who apparently misuse the word "rural" in conversation with you.

> no ink was spilled

Maybe I print all of these with an inkjet.

> That you were wrong

I'm sorry, where was I wrong? Where did I ever actually accuse any particular person of living in one place or the other? And in the end you do live in an urban area by your acknowledgement. I've only been asking for people to ensure they're really using the right terms.

> Agreed. So let's not invent a definition of rural that says that small towns and villages "easily get classified as urban or suburban"

Yes, let's not invent one. We'll just encourage the improper usage.

> The environment you describe would not be called a small town or a village by anyone

A surprising percentage of people living in areas like that do. I personally know some.

> People in rural areas still hang out with one another (and even... alot)

Aren't those like really dangerous?

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