I'm not sure if that is something we actually would want.
Lots of people certainly think they want that.
Lots of people certainly think they want that.
Lots of new taxes and UBI!
"Oh no the sinners might play video games all day"
I do expect the next comment would be something like "work is a path to godliness"
And you think these kinds of maxims formed out of vacuums? They are the kinds of sayings that are formed through experience re-enforced over generations. We can't just completely reject all historical knowledge encoded in our cultural maxims and expect everything to work out just fine. Yes, it is true that most people not having productive work will fill the time with frivolous or destructive ends. Modernity does not mean we've somehow transcended our historical past.
Sure, but the whole point is that the conditions that led to those sayings would no longer be there.
Put a different way: those sayings and attitudes were necessary in the first place because society needed people to work in order to sustain itself. In a system where individual human work is no longer necessary, of what use is that cultural attitude?
Beyond the issues of young males, there's many other ways for degenerate behavior to cause problems. Drinking, gambling, drugs, being a general nuisance, all these things will skyrocket if people have endless time to fill. Just during the pandemic, we saw the growth of roving gangs riding ATVs in some cities causing a serious disturbance. Some cities now have a culture of teenagers hijacking cars. What happens to these people who are on the brink when they no longer see the need to go to school because their basic needs are met? Nothing good, that's for sure.
All the "degenerate activities" you mentioned are a problem in the first place because in a scarcity-based society they slow down/prevent people from working, therefore society is worse off. That logic makes no sense in a world where people don't need to put a single drop of effort for society to function well.
This is a weird take. Families are worse off if a parent has an addiction because it potentially makes their lives a living hell. Everyone is worse off if people feel unsafe because of a degenerate sub-culture that glorifies things like hijacking cars. People who don't behave in predictable ways create low-trust environments which impacts everyone.
If I could pick between the world we are in now and one where all the problems societies face that are related, directly or indirectly, to the distribution of resources are eliminated, I would pick the latter in a heartbeat. The "price to pay" in the form of a possible uptick in "degeneracy" during the first few months/years is worth it, not to mention that I doubt that problem would arise at all.
You're just saying it's desirable that some people be at the bottom even in a scenario where the opposite could be feasibly achieved. All on some theory that the human mind (or at least some instances of it in the population) simply... won't be able to take it without going insane?
We should need a much, much higher standard of proof for what could result in unnecessary pain and suffering for years. Especially when this:
> some people just aren't psychologically suited to the modern world, whether that involves delaying gratification or rejecting low effort, high dopamine stimulation.
...is not a proven fact, and is, with respect to social media, highly contested and inconclusive.
What's wrong with having people at the relative bottom? Trying to force equality onto society does not have a good track record. We can raise the absolute bottom past the point of poverty while also not upending social structures that have served us well for centuries.
>All on some theory that the human mind... simply... won't be able to take it without going insane?
I'm saying transformative change across the whole of society shouldn't be undertaken lightly. I don't need to prove that a world where human labor is obsolete would be damaging to the human psyche. Those who want to rush ahead just assume things will be just fine. They have the burden of proof. We've seen how bad things can get when the social engineers get it wrong. We're at a local peak in human flourishing for a large part of humanity. Why should we pull the lever on the unknown in hopes that we will come out ahead?
Do you think they've always existed in all human cultures throughout time?
The pro-work ethic is fairly new in human civilization. Previous cultures considered it to be a burden or punishment, not the source of moral virtue.
> Yes, it is true that most people not having productive work will fill the time with frivolous or destructive ends.
And that's fine! A lot of people fill their time at work with frivolous or destructive ends, whether on their own or at the behest of their employer.
Not all work is productive. Not all work is good. It isn't inherently virtuous and its lack is not inherently vicious.
No, they formed in societies where it WAS necessary for most people to work in order to support the community. We needed a lot of labor to survive, so it was important to incentivize people to work hard, so our cultures developed values around work ethics.
As we move more and more towards a world where we actually don’t need everyone to work, those moral values become more and more outdated.
This is just like old religious rules around eating certain foods; in the past, we were at risk from a lot of diseases and avoiding certain foods was important for our health. Now, we don’t face those same risks so many people have moved on from those rules.
Do you think there was ever a time in human societies where the vast majority of people didn't have to "work" in some capacity, at least since the rise of psychologically modern humans? If not, why think humanity as a whole can thrive in such an environment?
We now have western societies with a growing population of homeless people, that despite having access to tons of resources at their disposal, still can't get their shit together. A great majority are doing drugs and smoking/abusing alcohol.
And it's enough to have 20 crackheads to destroy a neighborhood of 10000 hard-working, peaceful people.
The brain does saturate eventually and gets bored. Then the crisis of meaning. Then something meaningful emerges.
We’re all gonna die. Let’s just enjoy life to the fullest.
The people that truly enjoy their work and obtain meaning from it are vastly over represented here on HN.
Very few would be scared of AI if they had a financial stake in its implementation.