The new science of controlling lucid dreams
scientificamerican.com
scientificamerican.com
The idea is that when you check while awake, you will pass the awake-check, but set up a habit pattern. While dreaming, you will observe weird stuff when this happens, realize it must then you must be dreaming; you then become lucid, and can sort of control the dream, or at least be aware you're dreaming.
It may or may not have worked for me a handful of times. It certainly felt so, but only briefly, and I can't confirm it was the desired effect. Would wake up shortly after each time.
So you’re saying the simulation architects used an older diffusion model for dreams.
> It may or may not have worked for me a handful of times
Exactly my experience. I used the exact strategy you mention (add pinching yourself, as old fashioned as that sounds) and it was almost too easy how quickly it worked, couple days I think. I questioned if it was real or not
I think these concepts are actually related - the things that end up messed up in dreams and diffusion models are things that have high information density. Faces, hands, books, phone screens, ship layouts etc all have a lot of information in them from a human perspective. If we pay attention then we can see the (lack of) this level of detail.
This kind of lucid dreaming advice has worked for me a handful of times. They've been very memorable dreams.
That sounds horrifying. 5 fingers per finger. Do those other 5 fingers also have five fingers per finger, like a finger fractal gone out of control?
In dreams, I've seen people vibrate drastically until they become part of the scenery. Or other insane and horrible to describe things. However, to "myself" in the dream, that was not as surprising as my recollection of it.
Or, a keyboard accident.
Also lucid nightmares and false awakenings aren’t great. Spin around in circles fast so everything is blurry and you might buy some time.
Looking at your hands worked for me. It was definitely a fun thing when I got it to work
I am not sure what you're referring to but I remember watching an episode of some fictional show on Netflix where this method was used. Where a couple would count their fingers throughout the day so they could dream lucidly together.
If I'd have to guess I think it was "Behind Her Eyes".
Disclaimer: My message before ChatGPT correcteded because my English isn't good enough to me:
As a kid I was so happy to "discover" that I can be mildly awake and control my dreams. It happen by mistake, I fall at sleep while listening music loudly, I was in a middle state of being awake because the loud music, and being sleep dreaming, in the dream I was as a observer, knowing that that was a dream, and with the music on the backround annoying me, it was stresfull. Later I "improved" the technique and was able to control the dream, and discard the annoying music.
I was in a conversation recently with a christian convert who seemed to operate on the principle that the tenants of a religion are real if there are religious experiences which indicate it to be so -- and it became clear they meant in dreams, but not exactly dream-like states. At the same event there was a muslim who had family members with visions (and so on). I made the point that localised to each region of the world are its own cultural beliefs 'replayed back' in such states -- this is especially noticiable in schizophrenia where psychosis-based delusions are heavily mapped through a cultural lens (eg., some spy service is contacting them through 5G; and UFOs in a previous era; ghosts before then; and devils before then).
It does seem plausible that lucid dreaming offers a plausible explanation of religious 'visions' which occur in well-functioning people; and likewise a mechanism for why they are so encultured -- with gods of one locale appearing to adhearents there.
And if lucid dream were previously much more widespread, this offers an additional benefit of religious mythology, which is narrative material for the construction of these dreams.
This idea is interesting, but unfalsifiable with our current methods of understanding history.
Combined fasting, sleep deprivation, and focused attention are enough to induce hallucinatory experiences for a lot of people, specifically if that experience is sought out over time. Even in christianity this was widespread until relatively recently in the form of pre-feast fasting & vigil, and is still practiced by monastics.
Lucid dreaming may be part of these traditions I don't really know. Religious experience is so broad and ancient it's hard to rule things out. But there are a lot of descriptions of visions, and while it's common for them not to distinguish between "visions" and "dreams" per se I've never read a description of something that sounds like lucid dreaming in a pre-modern source.
> This research could lead to wearable devices programmed with algorithms that detect opportune moments to induce lucidity in people as they sleep
-we would’ve lost our minds. Above most other recent inventions, this really feels like the future
I think many of us nerds are intrigued by the concept of lucid dreaming but haven't actually explored the space. I skimmed a book on the subject in the mid 80's, but only tried the techniques a couple of times. Oddly, I still remember a couple of my lucid dreams.
1. Doing a reality check habitually in real life. Eventually you'll start doing it in dreams and have it fail. This _usually_ kicks you into lucid territory
2. Estimating when you're going to be in a REM state and setting a timer to wake yourself up. Then, after gaining consciousness fully, trying to make your body go to sleep while your mind is awake
Can you spot why I stopped doing it after a period of time? It end up feeling like a lot of work every day just for a chance (a low one in my and most people's cases) of having a lucid dream. Sleeping was no longer a passive, let's-relax type of activity. I just wanted to reclaim that period of time in a way.
I think my biggest takeaway from my lucid dreams was just the feeling of being in one. It's hard to describe, but the rush that comes along with the realization you can do anything you want is quite exhilarating.
When I’m awake, I immediately answer “no,” but when I’m asleep, I’m not sure. That’s enough to know that I’m not awake.
Every now and then, say every hour, or whenever you think of it, look around you. Try to check if what you see is real. Are things floating around and is gravity not working as expected? When you look over your shoulder and back, did the room change color, and did the table just turn into a tree? Try to touch something with your hand. Do you not feel any resistance when your hand drops through the couch? If so, you are probably dreaming.
1. Trying to put your index finger through the other palm. In a dream this works, it just goes through;
2. Press your nose closed and continue breathing normally. In a dream this works.
I stopped for a similar reason as the other poster. It really interfered with my ability to get the much needed rest while sleeping. It doesn’t come free (but is awesome when it works)
The basic technique is just to meditate to sleep by counting your breaths, while not moving at all. It is really hard to pull off until you get used to it, but with some dedication you can get decent success. If you do it right, your body enters sleep paralysis while your brain is still awake, and you get dropped into a dream.
I'd also recommend lying on your back when attempting to lucid dream, it always made it much more likely to occur for me, along with sleep paralysis. There is some unexplored physiological reason for this, but it's real and many sleep experts have found the same results.
I would also recommend not getting caught up in losing track of the count, simply starting over from 0 the moment you realize that you lost your place.
I have severe chronic insomnia, ADHD, tourettic OCD and a predisposition for body-focused repetitive behaviors so if I can meditate myself to sleep, I'm pretty sure anyone can with some practice. The reason why I can't do it every night and "beat" insomnia is two-fold:
One, because it paradoxically aggravates sleep avoidance for me. It's an excruciating experience spending 30-60 minutes lying completely still while alarm bells are going off in my head, paired with intense urges commanding me to scratch an itch or adjust a limb, and it's anything but meditative until the very moment sleep paralysis kicks in and my body goes numb.
Two, it usually puts me into sleep paralysis which is just rolling the dice for a metric ton of adrenaline to get released during a paralysis hallucination. I've had sleep paralysis encounters keep me up for the next few days, shit gives me the creeps.
I remember a friend of mine saying how he went manic and hadn't slept for days after trying some stuff he read in a book about 'dream yoga'. Always honestly left the impression that you can fuck this up just like you can pulling a muscle in your leg, except this is your mind you're talking about
The "getting sucked into the sky" dreams are always incredibly exhilarating. Had some like that.
I had an extraordinarily rare moment a few years ago wherein I actually had one single 8-hour interrupted sleep session. For the entire 8 hours, I was sucked in a single, continuous lucid dream that took place over a full day of school. I was completely convinced that I'd died or was dying in my sleep and was experiencing an extended DMT-fueled hallucination.
I was literally running my hand across surfaces and studying reflections in the CRT monitors trying to find imperfections or proof that it was just a normal dream. But everything was hyperrealistic and vivid and continuous. The dream even started out with me waking up, getting ready, getting on the bus and arriving to school. Even the clocks were behaving.
During the dream, between classes, there was a hole in floor of the main hallway which just got bigger and bigger each time I saw it. And each time, there was a larger crowd of people surrounding it. Eventually, I saw someone jump in. Towards the end of the day, there was a full-blown hole cult worshiping and praying to the hole, wearing religious garb, making offerings, etc. It took a few weeks to recover from that dream.
For example, I once had a dream that I smoked DMT and had a full-blown psychedelic experience during my dream. I then woke up and felt "high", in some kind of altered state, for over 12 hours. Under the right circumstances or simulated environment, the brain seems able to induce a variety of sudden or gradual psychological and neurological changes.
Imagine someone without control of their limbs being able to benefit from practicing tai chi or yoga in their sleep. Obviously, feedback from an instructor is important, but imagine a distant future where we are able to record and decode our dreams and allow instructors to review footage.
[1] https://www.science.org/content/article/ai-re-creates-what-p...
At the time, at least, the recommended starting point was dream journaling–writing down everything you can remember as soon as you wake up. Practicing that even for a few days has the effect of helping you retain quite a bit more detail from your dreams. It wasn't so much that I had unpleasant dreams as it was that remembering them made the night seem somehow less restful, as though I needed the relatively blank gap of sleep in the filmstrip of my memory to be able to wake up with a clear head.
Anecdotally, I become lucid whenever I take it without doing the rest of the study's rituals, but I've worked on improving my dream recall for years now.
This felt odd to read.
The purpose of sleep isn't to dream, it's to garbage collect. Activating parts of the brain to control dreams means they aren't sleeping anymore, which surely is getting in the way of the primary function?
Dream reality works by association and expectation rather than having a strict ruleset.
Looks like it's out there on streaming services still: https://www.tvguide.com/movies/dreamscape/2000115208/
>That was the conclusion of a recent study by Mallett, who surveyed 400 posts on Reddit to identify exactly when and how lucid dreams are helpful for improving mental health.
Although it's not about a magical device but about practice.
The series is called the Gateway Experience. Its a kind of semi guided meditation using the binaural beats that is intended to induce out of body experiences.
I tried it years ago and although I never experienced a OOBE it did seem to induce lucid dreaming. Its a bit new-agey but not in a preachy or religious way.
Anyway, TGE is a fantastic resource if you put the time into it. I've gotten to levels of meditation through it that still make me question reality.
On the one hand, I'm very much facts, data, and reproducibility oriented, and "I know" that everything I experienced was just my brain having fun.
On the other hand, WTF. Maybe I am more than my physical self, and there are alternate dimensions I can teleport myself to.
I don't know if this matches anything you achieve through meditation, but I've had some incredibly complex and vivid dreams that make me question everything about myself and my brain. I tend to agree that it just comes down to an astonishingly powerful organ flexing its power.
I woke up from the dream in a state of sleep paralysis, and predictably tried screaming but to no avail. Since then, I would lucid dream at least a few times a week for many years. I would also constantly get sleep paralysis and night terrors. The night terrors were nothing new, I'd had them for as long as I can remember. But they would consistently occur when I was in sleep paralysis.
During paralysis, before falling asleep or after waking up, I would hallucinate beings entering my room, shuffling things around, staring at me, touching me and speaking to me. I've been visited by ghosts, people, giant spiders, the grim reaper, succubi, elves, all sorts of things. Usually there is a great feeling of terror or impending doom. Sometimes I'm told specific things or asked to do favors for the beings.
It's easy to see how people would mistake these incidents for real encounters with otherworldly beings during a time when science was less advanced. In fact, my Catholic guardians were convinced, and still are, that I was possessed by Satan. I never received help for my night terrors, which largely exist because of childhood torture by my guardians in the first place. My grandfather would shake me violently and tell me that Satan was inside of me and that I would never have the capacity to love another person, and that my nightmares and "possession" were a result of letting Satan in my heart.
Eventually I realized that I was having lucid dreams and sleep paralysis far, far more often when I would sleep on my back. In my youth, sleeping on my side hurt and so I was stuck constantly having sleep paralysis. I developed a Pavlovian response to sleeping which fed into an already severe insomnia.
I'm now a 30-year-old adult who still suffers from insomnia and constantly has nightmares about missing the bus, experiencing childhood abuse, being persecuted by police, being at school, etc. My dreams have become a window into childhood trauma where I continually get retraumatized and trigger flashbacks. However, because I often lucid dream, these dreams also afford me a chance to explore these traumas and experience control and safety in situations when I felt like I had neither. Also, I now cannot sleep on my back almost ever due to degenerative spine disease, and other chronic pains keep me up all night, so the nightmares happen a little less frequently. Silver linings.
I think there is so much potential in the therapeutic application of lucid dreaming and I would love to figure out a way to use my knowledge and skill with lucid dreaming to help others.
I experienced intense, complex night terrors when I was a kid, although I was never abused (that I know of). I wonder why.
> being persecuted by police
I have these too in my current life, but as a kind of weird anti-nightmare where I'm actually being extremely successful at escaping.
I do have to be careful though, because with lucid dreaming your body might not always stay paralyzed. I've learned over the last 20 years that any time I find myself peeing in a dream, I need to immediately wake up and go use the bathroom before I chance leaking any urine in my sleep.
Luckily, even when not lucid dreaming I retain the ability to wake up at any time due to distress, a very useful coping mechanism from decades of night terrors.
The hard part is altering the dream significantly without leaving a theta state and collapsing the dream. It all becomes about energy management. For example, two nights ago I found myself in a dream, and a few moments after I walked outside I realized the scene was too bright and noisy, and that my brain would wake up too much processing it.
So I had to hurry back inside, but I couldn't run either or that would release adrenaline. It took a lot of concentration and deliberate movement to get back inside before my dream fully collapsed, and it did collapse soon anyway minutes later.
With lucid sex dreams, it's similar. Energy conservation is key to extending the experience.
As an example, one thing I like doing is telling my dream subjects that they're in a dream and studying their reactions.
Well what are their reactions?
Where are the editors? Scientific American has fallen a long way.
Is this just WordPress-like churn that no-longer involves decent tools and processes? Is the whole thing written in a browser?
How so? I also lucid dream and could never say anything about that.
This is like saying science and technology should stay out of the area of... whatever, say, running. Nobody forces you to wear high-tech gadgets while running.