Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34895061
Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34895061
Or maybe their risk management teams have never thought of this happening, who knows.
On short notice and without pilots having any experience in doing it? That’s another hole in the Swiss cheese.
You either do something manually all the time, or you automate it and declare it a critical system. Half measures of automation kill people in Aviation.
That said, the critical plane flying and ground handling stuff (like loading cargo for proper balance) is well practiced and understood enough to run fine with ad-hoc paper records albeit it would reduce operational tempo.
It's putting the right luggage in the right place, making sure the right plane gets its poo pumped, making sure the cleaning crew knows what to do and where to go, recording maintenance needs and activities on anything that doesn't fly, etc, etc that doesn't have redundancy or good fallback plans or people/managers who understand how their jobs fit into the context well enough to improvise effectively and even if they could the B rate people you had design all your corporate process didn't account for that sort of stuff so people would be risking their jobs if they couldn't do sign offs on the company ipads and whatnot.
What's most likely to happen is that they will punch it all into an excel sheet and get their primary objective of weight distribution correct. What will suffer is cargo organization so the crew at the layover is likely to find that they need to unload a bunch of stuff in order to get at some cargo that needs to come off at that stop.
A plane "could" fall out of the sky but that would require multiple people not doing their job but there's no point in pearl clutching over that because even if the software works the same people not doing their job can still cause that outcome.
[0] https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/aviation/2023/02/20/after-al...
The bug you cite, which you would not likely even know about if not for other commenters, was only caught because people asked for an old school manual calculation. Had the software process been more transparent it perhaps could have been caught earlier.
The fact that someone failed to properly implement the calculation in software does not change the efficacy of doing the calculation manually. Furthermore, the fact that there were people capable of eyeballing the accuracy of the software outputs seems to back up my point that there are tons of people capable of doing these calculations kicking around.
This is not rocket surgery. This is something that literally every private pilot with a Cessna does when they encounter a novel loading. Stop making it out to be some super scary thing requiring serious expertise to not screw up.
As a backup we had the old carbon slips that went into a plastic rig and made an impression of the customer's card. We also had a printed out sales tax table and some more carbon slips we could use to hand-write a receipt. I had to resort to the paper based system on many occasions.
A few years back I was in a store shopping when the power went out. The staff didn't know what to do and closed the store early. They had no way to sell me the items in my basket. I asked if they could take an impression of my card and got met with blank stares. They couldn't even take cash because they didn't know how to calculate the total amount, had nothing to write a receipt on, and their cash drawers wouldn't open anyway.
Nowadays credit cards don't even come with raised numbers...
So that's what the raised numbers were for. I just got my first card without raised numbers last January. It still feels fake and "insecure" to me, even though I know better. Funny how things work.
Seems relatively new, as some people look at funnily when I hand it over when they need it for "deposits" or whatever.
I've always wondered how that works for businesses that still prefer to compare the last four digits of a physical card with those of a booking made online, like some hotels or airlines still do.
So far, they've looked at me strangely, fetched a superior who either says "whatever" or they run through the card through their reader to get the last four. Seems to work out well enough at least.
Running it through a reader would also not work – the number on the chip and magnetic stripe is different from the one you see in the app and use for online payments. That's why I'd rather not use it for a hotel or international airline booking, for example (some still have "you must have the physical card with you to be allowed to board" in their terms and conditions, although nobody has ever requested to see mine in practice).
Do you know if your last four digits (that are printed on receipts too) match those you can see in the app?
Ah, first time I heard about it, seems to not be available outside the US so that explains it :)
> Do you know if your last four digits (that are printed on receipts too) match those you can see in the app?
Yes, it does. It also matches with whatever they see when they run the card, however they do that. The card number is identical for online payments, "offline" payments (with terminals) and what I see in my banking application.
The only thing that changes is the CVC, as it rotates every ~6 minutes or so.
This was literally a bit in the Y2K episode of King of the Hill. Hank goes to buy a new "Y2K compliant" computer. The cashier couldn't ring him up and freaks out.
And I saw an old card imprint thingo at an op shop (thrift store), slight rusty but seemed to still seemed to work.
I have only a single card with raised/embossed numbers, and that's somewhat ironically a pre-tax transit benefit card, i.e. the least likely of any I own to ever be used in a carbon imprinter.
The last one with raised numbers was delivered to me in 2024. The one without came a few months later, from the same bank. It also has the number on the back, right next to the static CVC. I guess security is indeed their top priority.
Anecdotally, all the credit cards I've had started to have the paint rub off the embossed number fairly quickly, rendering it very difficult to read. The other text on them didn't have this issue.
Arguably it's a wash for security: Yes, you can take a single photo of all the card details if the CVC is on the same side as the number and expiry, but on the other hand, there's nothing of value on the front now, which helps with people taking photos of their cards and posting them on social media.
And I agree, the paint rubbing off is extremely annoying, and even worse when it's metallic paint, flakes of which have a habit of deeply embedding themselves in all kinds of leather and fabric materials. That, and the fact that you can't fit as many of them in a "card-only wallet", makes me not want to carry any of them anymore.
If word gets out that a given store has no online processing and is accepting carbon slips again, you can bet that quite a few people with stashes of stolen/closed credit cards will show up and start buying the most expensive items in the store.
The modern equivalent would be offline chip processing. That is actually capable of at least ensuring that a given card is not heavily overdrawn or outright forged. Still, even that is unfortunately being scaled back significantly, given that "everything is always online anyway, so why do we need it?"