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Comment by kstrauser | Hacker News Reader

I bought a Unicomp Type M once to replace my IBM because it had USB, more keys, etc. It was Model M “Lite”: same key feel, same delightful clicky, but much lighter and more flexible.

You could march into battle with an IBM Model M. I don’t think you could take on more than one local thug with the Unicomp version.

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I was all excited for the TKL Unicomp keyboard they introduced a couple years ago. I bought one the second it went up for sale, and plugged it in right away when I got it. I had to ditch it after a few hours. It turns out that certain keypresses won't register if another key is pressed at the same time, and I type fast enough that it was losing keypresses regularly. I haven't had a keyboard with this problem since about 1985. An unconscionable design mistake which tarnishes the entire Unicomp brand for me.

Nearly all Model M keyboards have horrendous key rollover issues, supporting as little as 2-key rollover and only between certain sets of keys; within a set, the keyboard will only register one keypress or the keyboard will generate garbage keypresses.

It sounds like Unicomp designed the newer keyboards to have better PCB designs, but had firmware issues with key rollover on the mini (is that yours?) and may have fixed it: https://www.reddit.com/r/modelm/comments/13o0jkr/raspberry_p...

The microcontroller they had been stuck on for ages became unavailable so they started producing models with Rpi2040's, which can run QMK. If you still have it kicking around, maybe it is one of the QMK supported keyboards or they've released a fixed firmware for it?

Unfortunately the Model M and derivatives have long been eclipsed by the market. Better electronics/firmware, mechanical switches with choices in travel, force, noise level, and tactile feel... designs with lower profiles, different grid arrangement and almost every key count/layout imaginable...

Interesting, thanks for the link. I'll investigate and see if I can get it working more better.

But FWIW, I have multiple Model M classic keyboards (from 1992), and also other Unicomp full-size keyboards, and I've never had this issue with them.

I also know the story that the market has "better" options than the Model M. Maybe it's just nostalgia but I've never found anything with the same feel as a buckling spring. The Model M just feels nice to me.

For my Model Ms I've ordered and soldered PCBs from an open source project that are drop in replacements for their controller PCBs and convert them to USB A plus QMK firmware. (I'm going a bit by memory, as I had to stop the project for a while and still have to switch a couple of them, but can look that for you if you're interested)

But the keys can support a cockatiel, which makes working around them a little easier.

The real deal is the IBM model F 122 key one - which can be used to invade small countries.

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/classic-style-f122-m...

New keyboard testing metric just dropped over Christmas break.

I mean, this is the keyboard people use to run through the dishwasher to clean it. You have to come up with more advanced criteria to really tease them apart.

(I just realized that "flexible" above might be interpreted positively, like "applicable in more situations". No, I mean "flexible" as in "may not be satisfactorily used as a bridge over a pothole in case of emergency", which the original would be able to pull off and still be used to write a blog post about the experience afterward.)

Is that, is that true? A dishwasher? Was this a regular occurrence? Did they have to turn down the water heater before hand? Did they take the keys off or leave them on and how did they dry if so?

That is true. I don't think anyone routinely did that instead of using canned air or something like that, but it was absolutely on the table for more substantial messes. Spill a can of soda into your keyboard? Run that sucker through the washer.

I have not personally done this, but google "ibm model m dishwasher" and you'll see lots of anecdotes.

You can do it today. Don’t run the heated dry and put it in with the keys facing down. Run it and take it out and leave it upside down over night on a towel. Let the connector hand down as well.

Should work perfectly in the morning.

Basically: no. The construction of the Model M disallows removing the backplate after the assembly is removed from the case. On the Model F, however, the backplate is not attached with plastic rivets, and had no rubber membrane that could trap liquids, so after the electronics were removed, it is feasible to wash it in a dishwasher. Inadvisable to say the least, if you want your PCB to remain non-warped.

I've done that a few times but not "regularly". Use the top rack, no soap, no heated dry, zip-tie a plastic bag over the connector. Afterwards let it sit on the counter face-down for a couple of days to air-dry. Comes out sparkly clean.

Most electronics are run through a 'dishwasher' as part of manufacturing. Hot water removes a lot of gunk that if left causes earay failure. chips are plastic, the board is fiberglass, the resisters are ceramic or plastic most capacters are ceramic, the conductors are metal - none of that cares about water once it dries. The only thing to worry about is impurities in the water since they can leave something conductable behind. Some capacters however cannon take water. Likewise I'm note sure if LCDs are sealed enough.

be careful of what soap you use though, dishwasher soap is too harsh. Manufactures are using deionized water and if any soap it is specific to electronics. Your house water isn't pure enough to do this often but once ever few years and you will normally get away with it.

Yes, electronics are often washed...in ultrapure water. Very briefly, and then immediately dried.

LCDs are definitely not sealed enough, many capacitors are electrolytic, and fiberglass is not impermeable to water (in fact, water-logged fiberglass is an issue for boats in areas where weather causes freeze-thaw cycles.)

Your dishwasher is full of mineral deposits, food waste particles, and likely quite a bit of mold. Getting rid of all of that would involve dissolving deposits with vinegar or citric acid, then running some lye or similarly aggressive treatment to get the mold and organic waste out. That's a lot of hassle.

You can't put "soap" in a dishwasher unless you want a giant bubble factory. So now you're looking at trying to find a specialty cleaner.

Most people's water is not nearly pure enough for the keyboard to not have issues afterward. You MIGHT get away with it if you thoroughly blasted it with compressed air and then dunked it in distilled water.

That's a huge amount of hassle.

Unless something has been spilled on the keyboard, just periodically brush out debris and then hit it with compressed air...

Many have proven you wrong with the model M. For other electronics your point stands beware that some will have no issues and some will

Can a dishwasher remove the dirt that's inside the keyboard, beneath the keycaps?

I've not run the whole keyboard through the dishwasher, but I certainly have taken off all the keycaps and washed them in boiling, soapy water. I did that to another keyboard thinking I could clean up the key funk and instead the keycaps just melted and deformed. Turns out not all keyboards are created equal. (Or use the same plastics.)

That reminds me that once as a kid I got a free Apple II+ and the main board was really dusty. So, like any enterprising kid I unconnected and unscrewed it, washed it in the sink with soap and water, and then set it in the oven at 250F to dry for a few hours. It worked great! I wonder how many modern consumer products could take that same abuse?

Electronics can handle quite a lot. I often rinse PCBs in boiling RO water (after ultrasonic cleaning with speciality detergents for flux removal) post rework. After this, drying at 125°C for a while to get those nice and crispy again. You do not want to increase the temperature above 100°C too fast, however, to avoid “popcorning” — little steam explosions due to absorbed moisture.

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