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Comment by Rod | Hacker News Reader

You made a very good point. I don't know what to answer. Defining what a "right" is and what it is not would lead to endless discussion.

In any case, I would say that instead of discussing in rather vague terms whether more government is better / worse than less government, it would be sensible to think of what kind of government.

By principle, I believe that goverment bureaucracy and interference should be kept to a minimum. However, I would rather live under a Scandinavian-like government (even though it's big government) than in a Somalia-like anarchy. We all agree on the goals: freedom, prosperity, etc. Sometimes we disagree on how to get there. I vote for pragmatism over ideology.

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> However, I would rather live under a Scandinavian-like government [...] We all agree on the goals: [...] prosperity, etc.

Yes, I've totally cut up your point, and I'll take this over Somalia any day. But Scandinavian government (Denmark in this case) couldn't care less about prosperity. Right out of college, you're in the top tax bracket, paying 63% on everything above $64.000 annual income (and just under 50% on everything below). Buying a car? 180% registration tax, and slap 25% sales tax on top of that.

But yeah, we've got worse schools than Portugal and free mediocre healthcare, but most importantly: we have high economic equality.

So no, unfortunately we don't agree on the goals.

With all due respect, compared to 90% of the world's population, Danes are pretty prosperous IMHO.

More than 50% of people in working age in Denmark work for the government or make their living through some sort of welfare program. This means more than half the population of Denmark is prosperous exclusively because of income taken from the productive part of population.

Denmark and most of the rest of Scandinavia used to have a very classically liberal (~libertarian) mind set. It is the work ethic that has maintained much of the prosperity. Many of Denmarks large successful export businesses come out of this period.

As I like to say. Denmark is prosperous despite their welfare state and not because of it.

Absolutely, we are. But Denmark is, along with the rest of "old Europe" going to wake up pretty soon and realize that the half bln. Chinese and Indian citizens that are moving into the middle class these years, are going to send their kid to college, and the white collar jobs are going to go the same way the blue collar jobs did over the past 20 years.

Without a strong focus on wealth creation, instead of the constant preaching to the mediocre and the "good enough", we're not going to have much to show once the Chinese and Indians get started.

In short: Prosperity is not a goal to attain, it's a continuous effort, and we just stopped trying.

A few years ago I spent a Summer in Copenhagen, so I know a tiny bit of Denmark. I remember talking to Danish friends on how ridiculously high the taxes were. Yes, I was amazed that you guys pay 180% tax on cars.

On the necessity of wealth creation, I fully agree with you. I think the Germans, Danes, Swedes (etc) will soon find out that they will have to work a whole lot more than their parents to enjoy the same standard of living their parents could enjoy. It's not a pleasant thought, but then, the prosperity that Old Europe has enjoyed over the last few decades is pretty much an historical anomaly.

I could not agree more that prosperity is a continuous effort. I suppose the old Europeans are just a bit blasé and refuse to look at the facts. The world has changed.

I remember talking to Danish friends on how ridiculously high the taxes were. Yes, I was amazed that you guys pay 180% tax on cars.

http://www.skovgaard.org/europe/denmark.htm

The Danes believe Denmark is the best country in the world, that Danish beer is the best in the world, and that anything they do is better than anywhere else in the world. But however contradictory it may seem, between them, they don't like to see others being successful. Thus, they do everything they can to bring down the brightest amongst them. The communist tax system that has brought the highest overall taxation level in the world is an effective way of doing so.

That is one scary article. I knew Denmark was pretty communist, but I had no idea it was perverted to this point. An eye-opener, for sure.

That article is a bit on the edge, it should be said. But, by and large, his points are valid.

Most importantly, most parties aren't communist, they are "social democratic", definitely very left leaning compared to anything. There is a general (far from thorough) respect for private property, something you wouldn't expect from communists.

Somalia is not an anarcho-capitalist society. In Denmark there is less violation of property rights, so you could say Denmark is more libertarian than Somalia.

The Seasteading project might result in some anarcho-capitalist societies: http://www.seasteading.org/

If we agree on the goals we can try Social Policy Bonds (http://socialgoals.com/).

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