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Comment by scott_w | Hacker News Reader

I don’t think the author is saying this is their opinion but this sentence stood out to me:

Monogamy is coercive.

For a lifestyle that tries to sound “open,” this is an incredibly judgemental view to take on the many people who don’t live your lifestyle.

Some of this attitude reminds me of hearing “nobody cares if you’re not tattooed” in my tooth, from tattooed people. Right before insisting I should get a tattoo to be like them.

To be clear, I don’t care what 2, 3 or 30 consenting adults do in their personal lives. I wonder if the negative view of monogamy is just the immaturity of youth and those people have since grown out of that position?

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> I wonder if the negative view of monogamy is just the immaturity of youth and those people have since grown out of that position?

There are powerful entities, including religions and country laws, that either make life easier for people pratcicing the monogamous relationship style or just outright force that style on masses of people. This force spawns resistance, and the negative view you mention is an expression of this resistance.

And it's worth adding that the comment "Monogamy is coercive." is a reflection of this part:

> There are powerful entities, including religions and country laws, that [...] just outright force that style on masses of people.

I think we are conflating two different things. Monogamous people and monogamous institutions. Does the author mean institutions are coercive or that couples are coercive?

Almost certainly Both!

Systemic, indoctrinated and even toxic monogamy, perpetuated by people and society at large.

You've got people and relationships that are so harmed by strict heteronormativity and its related monogamy that "men and women can't be friends" and "you can't say that lady's cute because that's cheating" and pornography is adultery.

It's little microaggressions and requirements of conformity that systematize and enforce monogamy in little ways.

It doesn’t matter what system, society will ruin anything it enforces. Everything has pros and cons.

Imagine the same system enforcing poly. You’d have mandatory partner sharing to those in power, all sorts of requirements and gate keeping for who could and could not share, or be part of various cliques, etc.

For sure, anyone pretty or desirable would be expected to be poly and like it or else, etc.

The reality is that system would fly apart even faster than monogamous systems since there is no meaningful way to ‘opt out’ and protect oneself, which is why you don’t see it in any large scale societies.

The author of the post was quoting a book as saying that, and criticizing the book at the same time, so it sounds like you're more or less agreeing with them.

>To be clear, I don’t care what 2, 3 or 30 consenting adults do in their personal lives. I wonder if the negative view of monogamy is just the immaturity of youth and those people have since grown out of that position?

The negative view of monogamy that these people convey is an attempt to justify their lifestyle to people who don't like it, or to recruit more people to their lifestyle. One could argue that both monogamy and nonmonogamy have selfish aspects, but monogamy has proven more successful as a strategy for human society. Of course polyamorous people would debate that with you, but the disadvantages of polyamory are so obvious that it isn't easy to justify.

The disadvantages of polyamory are not obvious to me, as a 67 year who has been married twice and swore it off after the last one ended.

Could you elaborate more on this? In a non-esoteric way.

Some obvious risks are: higher chances of STDs, higher chances of strangers causing trouble for you in your home, more difficulties having kids (from paternity issues to differences in values like poly people don't often want kids), and a higher risk of losing your partner. You would probably be better off paying for a prostitute than trying to make polyamory work with all its inherent drama and complications. You still have to worry about STDs but at least you can walk away from any and all other trouble.

STDs aren't a mystery, we know how to avoid them. I actually invited more strangers into my home back when I was monogamous, honestly, but I'm not sure what that has to do with polyamory. Monogamous people lose their partners all the time, have you seen the divorce rates? None of what you are suggesting matches my experience.

Not to mention that safer sex practices are much more normalized in ENM circles. Getting tested before engaging with someone new (or on the reg if new partners are a more frequent thing), using protection, being open with partners about what you're up to are all great for preventing exposure to STDs.

Being monogamous with a cheating partner is...not so great at it. Their tolerance for risky behavior is obviously high, and they're already showing a lack of care for any consequences by stepping out. Yes, I know, "my partner would never be unfaithful," and I hope that's the case for everyone reading this. But it's a common enough occurrence that we all know someone who it's happened to.

>Being monogamous with a cheating partner is...not so great at it. Their tolerance for risky behavior is obviously high, and they're already showing a lack of care for any consequences by stepping out.

That's not a case of real monogamy. We could call it "attempted monogamy" maybe. Cheating partners often want to keep their original relationships intact and as such don't take extreme risks. They probably aren't sleeping with other people as often as a poly person would, and the type of person they sleep with is likely less promiscuous than a poly person.

It seems pretty clear to me that STD risks are lower for those in nominally monogamous relationships, even if there is always some risk of cheating. Redefining the cheating as acceptable behavior (that is, redefining the relationship as poly) is not solving any STD problems. It might if you absolutely cannot trust your partner to be remotely monogamous, but you do want to stay with them, and you do trust them to tell you who they're sleeping with, AND you can effectively use that information to reduce your own risks. For me, I just don't want to be with someone who does not think I'm enough.

>STDs aren't a mystery, we know how to avoid them.

I never said it's a mystery. I'm saying that monogamy is much safer than nonmonogamy in terms of STD risk. These risks are not negligible. Look at how many people have herpes for example.

>I actually invited more strangers into my home back when I was monogamous, honestly, but I'm not sure what that has to do with polyamory.

You don't have to sleep with strangers to be poly, it is true. But I think most people who are in fact sleep with strangers and others who might profess to be poly yet secretly have a lot of jealousy.

>Monogamous people lose their partners all the time, have you seen the divorce rates?

They lose them less than poly people. That's the point.

>None of what you are suggesting matches my experience.

Since many of the downsides I've explained are in terms of relative risks, one instance of good luck does not disprove it. I also think it's common sense that having more partners makes life complicated and introduces more significant risks. Hell, even one partner can wreck your life. More than one, especially the type of people who partake in such deviant and risky behavior, is just asking for trouble.

The negative view of monogamy is the Internet amplifying the most controversial "hot take" because it gets more clicks than "Do what thou will".

I was monogamous with my wife for about 8 years and I loved her and I think I still love her even though we broke up and probably won't be together again romantically ever.

I would say that monogamy, right now, is _not for me_. I just crave adventure, I'm a contrarian, I want more out of life than the standard, I want to sleep around. The revealed preference is that I want every aspect of my life to be "different" whether that's desktop Linux, veganism, changing my gender, etc.

If I had left that marriage and got into another monogamous relationship, in a few months I'd be wanting to date other people again.

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