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Comment by cpburns2009 | Hacker News Reader

cpburns2009

I don't think people outside the midwest understand just how ubiquitous "you guys" is here. After a previous time this discussion occurred on HN, I had to chuckle to myself when I heard my sister address a group of little girls as "you guys". It's our version of "y'all".

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Even as far west as Colorado we used it the same way when I was young. Then I got a job at an NYC company and the gendered-ness of it was frowned upon. I actually switched to "ya'll" and it worked great. All the New Yorkers just thought that's how Coloradoans talk. So, thanks Texas.

Totally unrelated but this Blaze Foley song talks specifically about getting back to a place "where the people say ya'll." It's beautiful:

https://blazefoley.bandcamp.com/track/clay-pigeons

I am another Midwesterner who has largely switched from "you guys" to "y'all" (nit: ya'll is not considered correct spelling) after some lengthy and heated Slack discussions between Midwesterners and West Coast at $previousJob.

P.S. Michael Cera does a nice cover of that song.

Dude nice thanks!

That's just corporate culture, not NY

I grew up using guys just to refer to group of people

It's PC tech culture.

> All the New Yorkers just thought that's how Coloradoans talk.

I love it. I blame France, specifically Remulac.

My first job was as a host at Red Lobster. I was reprimanded for saying "How are you guys doing today?" as I was seating a group of ladies. 16-year old me was trying my best to be polite, but language changes over time and that was one of my first introductions to code switching.

> language changes over time

But this language has not been changing over time. This was a dictate from HR departments, made up from whole cloth. If anything has changed over time, it's that "gals" has been an anachronism for a long while, outside of a few isolated corners of the Southern and Western US where it can still manage to sound cute in some contexts. We don't really need a special diminutive for groups of women.

That being said, it's not formal language, it's chummy. If you're a 16 year old host at a restaurant speaking to a group of women older than you, you probably shouldn't be chummy.

I'd hardly call Red Lobster formal. "Red Lobster Hospitality, LLC is an American casual dining restaurant chain," according to Wikipedia.

Any interaction a 16 year old employee has with a group of strange women who are customers and are older than him should be respectful.

I maintain that the sentence shows no disrespect to my Midwestern sensibilities. It's considered common courtesy to ask someone how their day is going, and I don't consider "you guys" to be a sign of disrespect. In fact, it seems quite clear to me that the parent was attempting to be warm and welcoming.

Warm and welcoming sure but too casual, you guys IMO implies familiarity, I wouldn't use it with strangers, could be regional or generational but that's my rural Illinoian take. Y'all is more flexible.

Fascinating - I'm from Michigan, and I would say "y'all" sounds more casual to my ears than "you guys." Formal speaking (in contrast to casual speaking) often eschews contractions.

I agree with the other poster. Missourian and "y'all" is ridiculously less formal than "you guys". To me, "y'all" is specifically informal and is used in exactly that manner, even in corporate emails. It denotes a more conversational tone that's open to feedback. "You guys" does not exist within formal/informal for me, it's either, neither, or both, just depending on what you say around it.

"How are you guys doing today" spoken at a red lobster is absolutely fine, completely normal language, whether spoken by the president or by a child. It's the single most ubiquitous and wholly normal greeting that i know. Corporate really over does it sometimes

That manner of social formality set sail a good 25 years ago my friend. On one hand I find it a shame, it was useful, on the other, it was also often misused (still exists in Korea where I now live, and it's abused like crazy here).

You spend too much time on a computer. Please stay out of the Midwest. Thank you.

> I was reprimanded for saying "How are you guys doing today?" as I was seating a group of ladies.

By one of the ladies, or by a manager who overheard you?

Yep. When I first encountered it years ago, that was my take. You'll for Midwesterners. Cool.

Well, I mooched it, and have seen it propagate here in the Northwest. Will not be long before it takes more general hold as we exchange people.

I seem to be bumping into it here (PDX) area more these days.

My favorite bit in all this is:

"All Y'all" which is simply plural for "Y'all", plus a subtle bit of familiarity state info.

If everyone is close, in agreement, likely to act as one, then "y'all" works for single as well as multiple people.

All y'all gets invoked when the group has differences. Maybe a few couples, or some people are new, or may be disagreeable in some way.

English is a lot of fun, because it allows for a very robust ad-hoc communication. Over time, the lexicon is never dull!

You guys is the default on the East Coast too. It wasn't until very recently that people started being concerned about it being a gendered term.

Midwest? I thought it was just a West Coast thing! (Also extremely ubiquitous in SoCal.)