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Comment by btown | Hacker News Reader

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... is a parallel saga for mimicking the macOS touchpad behavior on Linux; it's been a full 8 years in the making. It's so much more than acceleration settings!

I really appreciate, and will buy a beverage of choice anytime for, anyone who tries to go down these paths, including OP, whether with web or desktop technology.

Painstakingly mimicking, then eventually improving on, Apple's interactivity/motion design is IMHO one of those things that could make open-source desktops a superior option to both Windows and Apple from a mainstream user viewpoint, and those possibilities should be cherished.

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Someone was trying to raise money and find engineering time for the effort (but, no longer):

> We recognize that our rate of visible updates has slowed to the point where it no longer makes sense to continue billing sponsors of this project.

> But at the moment, our lead developer is working on Linux touchpad improvements at less than 1/8 capacity. This means that progress is slow as he can only spend half a week per month on improvements.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39607747

I was forced to use Apple laptops (M1, M2) for work the past years and I really don't understand what people find so great about mac touchpads compared to the one of at least average laptop with Linux.

I did not really notice a difference or when i noticed some it was in defavor of the Mac. Like precise selecting/drag and drop is marginally harder, you gave to put more force for the physical click, and I find the tap to click to be easier, more reactive, faster "click to effect" on my linux laptops.

One of the mayor things to hate is that you need to hold down the trackpad to do any stuff

System Settings > Trackpad > "Tap to click" fixes that.

Try out the other options there too: two-finger tap for right-click, two-finger drag for scroll, and three-finger drag window by title bar.

Also the default speed is useful for Gen X or older. Gotta max out pointer speed and keyboard repeat rate when you buy a new Mac.

Battery life and trackpad is why I've been buying Apple for like 20 years now.

All other hardware companies have been doing a mediocre job on these two features.

I've tried looking up the source code, but this seems to be the CEO of a security company blogging about their closed source side project.

I’m not sure why people always praise Apple on interaction Design. I just got a MacBook again, and there’s little things that just drive me crazy: when you use tap-to-drag on macOS, there’s a delay when releasing the drag (presumably so u can continue dragging by putting the finger back down). This doesn’t exist in windows or Linux, so when working with multiple OSs, one keeps mis-dragging, making a big mess every time. But there doesn’t seem to be a setting for it, either.

Or why does Apple insist on having a non-standard keyboard in Germany, it doesn’t even have characters like ~{}[] on it, only accessible via hidden key combinations that don’t match the standard keyboard. Oh and the US keyboard is only available in the Apple Store, where everything is 200€ more expensive. Just like, why mess with basic interaction design in a way that’s really unrefined and infuriating.

Something being unfamiliar doesn't make it worse. Or better necessarily, but it seems noteworthy that your frustration is with a feature designed to make it possible to drag draggable things around without losing them if your finger leaves the trackpad for an instant.

> Or why does Apple insist on having a non-standard keyboard in Germany,

This:

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MXCL3D/A/magic-keyboard-u...

Appears to my eye to match this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_keyboard_layout

Precisely. I just switched to the german layout, which has some amusing consequences for words like layout, but: []{}~, looks like everything is where Wikipedia says that a T1 German layout should put things. What's the complaint exactly? Because it's not that the keyboard is nonstandard, is it?

If you'd rather use another layout, you very easily can, right? I mean, I just did.

FWIW, that is a thing that Apple actually gets wrong a bit across the world.

The default layout for Macs sold in Poland is also nonsensical — it's "technically" more correct, and maps closer to what the typewriters looked like (I think?); but it is a layout that literally nobody else uses.

I don't think I could easily find a non-Apple keyboard with that layout in Poland if I tried.

Old Italian Macs used a classical QZERTY keyboard, like typewriters, but no other computer keyboard uses that layout.

Normal computer keyboards use QWERTY (plus some accented letters). Luckily, Apple switched to that layout for Italian keyboards many years ago.

What they mean is that on a standard german keyboard layout to type []{}~ one would press

  [ Alt Gr-8
  ] Alt Gr-9
  { Alt Gr 7
  } Alt Gr 0
  ~ Alt Gr +

While on an Apple keyboard you use

  [ ⌥-5
  ] ⌥-6
  { ⌥-8
  } ⌥-9
  ~ ⌥-n

Don’t confuse “standard” with “what IBM and Microsoft implemented in the 80s”.

I just tested the German – Standard layout on a Mac, it's the first one you indicate. Apple calls right-⌥ the Compose key, not AltGr, but works the same way, other than being transposed with the Command key from the familiar Windows style of layout.

There's also a keyboard layout just called German, maybe that one works the way you refer to? But surely it's not too much to ask that someone select the keyboard style they're accustomed to using?

> it seems noteworthy that your frustration is with a feature designed to make it possible to drag draggable things around without losing them if your finger leaves the trackpad for an instant.

I agree with your point that "unfamiliar" is not "better" or "worse". But I will observe that much engineering, and much pushing of new mental models on users, has gone into working around the unwillingness to have mouse buttons.

With no mouse buttons: "double-tap-and-drag, release, possible delay on release for possible finger repositioning"

With mouse buttons: "click, drag, release"

Both models can work, but I marvel at the proposition of preferring the former.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. To drag and drop something on the Mac, you: click it, drag it, and release it.

Are you... under the impression that Macs don't have, clicking?

Based both on macOS documentation and on the experiences of people who use macOS:

> without Drag Lock: Double-tap an item, then drag it without lifting your finger after the second tap; dragging stops immediately when you lift your finger.

> with Drag Lock: Double-tap an item, then drag it without lifting your finger after the second tap; dragging continues when you lift your finger, and stops only when you tap the trackpad once.

> three finger drag: Drag an item with three fingers; dragging stops immediately when you lift your fingers.

It may well be that with current mac systems that have "force touch", it might be possible (or necessary) to replace some of those steps with "press hard". I stand by my statement that this is a lot of engineering and a lot of user adaptation in order to not have mouse buttons.

> To drag and drop something on the Mac, you: click it, drag it, and release it.

It's not true. On windows/linux:

    tap, release, tap, drag, release

On MacOs:

    tap, release, tap, drag, release, wait

When moving back and forth between windows/linux and MacOs, and after working for 20 years with windows, that "wait" isn't built in into finger-memory. So if you "move on" with the next actions, it means that you'll drag whatever you were dragging to the next button.

It's simply a very unrefined interaction.

> This:

> https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MXCL3D/A/magic-keyboard-u...

> Appears to my eye to match this:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_keyboard_layout

Not it does not. On the default German MacOs keyboard, keys are moved compared to the standard layout, in particular the braces and brackets (used for you know, coding):

    5 6 7 8 9 0 ß  - unmodified
    [ ] | | { } ≠  - with option on Mac
        { [ ] }    - with alt on windows

The tilde is also moved, and the at-sign.

You can claim "change is good", "why do you need to show keys on the keyboard, just memorize them" [1] and "you're holding it wrong", but then why at the same time fawn over Apple's supposedly super-refined interaction design.

[1] my wife, moving from linux/english to MacOs/German for work, actually uses a desktop background of the full keyboard layout, to help her find the hidden keys.

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