Appeal for British oak to recreate Sutton Hoo ship
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
Going over the article, it mentions three constraints pertinent to obtaining timber, and it seems that their intersection is empty.
The constraints for obtaining timber are:
1. A UK source is preferred (due to national pride?)
2. Price needs to be very cheap given the archeologists' non-profit budget
3. Veteran trees are necessary for a reconstruction, but specifically these are a scarce and precious resource.
It seems likely that either they relax (1) or get funding/sponsorship to relax (2). (3) does not admit relaxation
My translation from Wikipedia[0]: In 1975 the agency in charge of the forest notified the head of the Navy that the timber was ready for harvest. The navy declined the offer since they had transitioned to new materials
0: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekplanteringarna_p%C3%A5_Visin...
It’s pretty common in European coastal nations and since the transition to metal coincided with increased environmental awareness, many of them still survive. This project just wanted to use British wood but can’t afford commercial rates.
https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2015/05/11/the-wooden-wall...
That's serious hardwood lumber. Not something you get at Home Depot.
Really, ask the French. The Notre Dame rebuilt is finished, and that involved finding big pieces of hardwood. So there are people with recent expertise at this.
But why all this effort to re-create a burial ship?
Burial ships are generally how we have found out details of such old ships, as otherwise they'd have rotted away, or been chopped up, at the end of their lives. Similar to Viking ships.
It's not like they're trying to recreate the burial. They want to sail it and see how it works, giving us information on life back in the Saxon days.
They're basically asking for the sort of "been growing here for 100yr since the sheep left and the pasture grew over" trees that every industrial nation has all over the edges of its suburban property lines.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Spartiate_(1798)
> For example, it requires long clear runs of oak from trunks 6 metres in length and up to 1.2 metres diameter (at chest height) for planking and other longitudinal timbers. They need to be straight-grained and clear of knots.
No wonder they can’t afford it. Commercial oak is generally harvested when it’s 20-25 in at chest height. A 1.2 m tree is probably going to be at least 150-200 years old. No one is cutting those down without a serious payday.
Some of the trees used to restore Notre Dame were centuries old. One 20 meter tall tree they used was about 300 years old.
https://www.trees.org.uk/Help-Advice/Public/A-brief-guide-to...
Only a small fraction of ancient and veteran trees are protected (oak is veteran at 150+ years), not the vast majority:
> Despite their functions as carbon sinks and wildlife havens, there is no protection for ancient or veteran woodland unless it has been found to harbour other rare wildlife, or if it is subject to a tree protection order or is sited in a legally protected wildlife area. An estimated 20% of ancient and veteran trees are in such areas, so most have no legal protection. [1]
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/30/study-su...
I guess in the US I would expect wealthy to find some interest, donate some money, start ( funding ) planting Oak trees and get this moving.
In the UK I dont see much of these happening.
Commercial oak trees take decades for furniture grade wood and most are harvested after 50-80 years. The ones this project needs are at least 150-200 years old, which are very expensive in the UK. Anyone who plants them today is doing so for their great-great-great-great-… grandkids.
France has tons of them in forests specifically started centuries ago for the French navy but this project is insisting on UK wood for… reasons.
About 200 years ago they realised that the UK needed trees to build warships of the future, and so a number of were planted to supply the navy.
It’s just that things moved on in the meantime, and metal replaced wood.
But you can see it in the countryside there being 300 year old oaks in hedgerows, but no 100, or 50 year old oaks coming up to replace them, admittedly that’s what I’ve observed around here.
An item about the Royal Navy’s voracious appetite for wood:
(As a Brit and pre-Norman history enthusiast) I find this really pathetic, if it really is the reason.
Why the hell should we prefer a British source of wood? The Anglo Saxons wouldn't have given a shit about this. They weren't British, we aren't Anglo Saxon.
Trying to tie premodern history to modern national identity is the kinda childish shit that I normally associate with tourism boards and strongman dictators. Why do people want to "own" history like that?
(Well, I know why. But I think it's dumb).
> Trying to tie premodern history to modern national identity is the kinda childish shit that I normally associate with tourism boards and strongman dictators
And the millions upon millions of ordinary English people who consider their nation's history and identity important to their personal identity. For them, the ship is interesting because it's part of England's early history. You may think they're dumb and childish, but it would be unwise of the project to say that if they want anyone to donate.
Their boat project is in no hurry. Why can't it wait the natural pace of the "donations", slow as it may be?
Different times have different constraints, and so what constitues a multi-generational project varies.
https://saxonship.org/timber-requirements-for-the-reconstruc...
A sutton hoo recreation would be amazing, but I'm not sure it justifies use of veteran stock over newer oak trees.
https://saxonship.org/timber-requirements-for-the-reconstruc...
Apparently they found some, although don’t say where from:
> Two thirds of the ship's wooden planks have now been fitted and while the project had some trouble finding oak trees needed for this, Mr McMillan said they were expected a delivery next week.
>At the zenith of Horatio Nelson’s navy in the late-1700s into the 1800s, it took about 4,000 oak trees, or up to 40 hectares of forest, to build a single 100-gun ship-of-the-line. That’s equivalent to 3,750 city blocks of optimum-density oak forest for a vessel that, on average, sailed for 12 years.
https://legionmagazine.com/the-royal-navys-war-on-trees/
>Oak trees planted on the orders of Lord Nelson will be used to restore HMS Victory in time for the bicentenary of the Battle of Trafalgar next year. In 1802, with his flagship in need of refitting, Nelson toured the Royal Forest of Dean, in Gloucestershire, with his mistress Lady Hamilton and her husband. He subsequently made a secret deal with the largest timber merchant to provide enough supplies for HMS Victory and to refit other ships. Nelson also recommended to Parliament that the Forest of Dean be replanted to safeguard timber supplies for the Navy, which was done in 1808. Two trees planted then will now be used to repair the gun decks of the Victory.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Oak+trees+planted+on+the+orde...
there was a really interesting oak-growing factoid I read about, but I can't seem to find it. For a particular structural element for a sailing ship, you wanted to use a tree that grew with a crook in it, I guess it provided a natural place to support the next deck up or something. I think it was Nelson who was growing some trees precisely for that.
Anyway, I found this: the US Navy maintains an oak grove to provide wood for repairing the USS Constitution (the oldest commissioned warship still afloat).
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/uss-constituti...
according to wikipedia, "Captain Cuthbert Collingwood, later to become an admiral and Nelson's second in command at Trafalgar, had his home at Morpeth, in Northumberland, and when he was there on half pay or on leave he loved to walk over the hills with his dog Bounce. He always started off with a handful of acorns in his pockets, and as he walked he would press an acorn into the soil whenever he saw a good place for an oak tree to grow."
There is an apocrophal story that a French tourist was caught trying to steal one of the cannon balls from HMS Victory and was told "It's only a replica, we already gave all the real cannon balls to your countryman."
Edit: but I'm not sure it's still afloat!