The tale of two Shanghais | Hacker News Reader

The tale of two Shanghais

arun.is

81 pointsvrnvu18 comments

I finished the book "Last Kings of Shanghai" (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/48890489-the-last-kings-...) a few days ago and it has some overlap with this article. It's a very good and interesting read if you are curious about this part of the history, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Opium Wars etc.

Can highly recommend it!

Came here to comment the same. One of my favorite reads of the year.

Often, as I look at Salesforce Tower in SF, I remember that Shanghai Tower is twice as tall.

I'm quite disappointed by the article. It's not really about two Shanghais. Sure, it mentions an alleged divide, but it then doesn't actually explore the contrast but spends most of the time with skyscaper porn. I'm sure the average Shanghaian would be a little offended if their city is reduced to those.

The title is certainly misleading and sets the wrong expectation, but I found it a rather pleasant and informative read.

Perhaps a better title would have been "Skyscrapers of Shanghai."

> I was initially fascinated by the amount of engineering that goes into extreme buildings. That fascination shifted as I started to see skyscrapers as cultural markers, and the results of complex systems of economics and politics.

I don't think any field is free from this adage.

"The Skyscraper Curse"

https://mises.org/online-book/skyscraper-curse-and-how-austr...

There's an interesting correlation between the business cycle and record breaking skyscrapers.

A summary of what it is since the above link is talking a while about commentary on criticisms of the skyscraper curse before actually discussing it;

Record breaking skyscrapers rarely make sense because they are expensive to build and hard to fill, so their groundbreaking is associated with the late period of a time of easy credit and low rates.

And yet, we do it- all the mighty of the earth want to get high:

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torri_di_Bologna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat

There's a line in the Quran that the apocalypse is near when the sons of shepherds compete in building towers that try to reach the sky. A lot of Muslims allude in particular to the current crop of oil rich sheikhs (who are technically born from nomadic shepherding people) vying to build the world's tallest towers.

Except man has been trying to do that since time immemorial :D.

Interesting. I don't share their apocalyptic views, but I'll agree that misallocation of scarce resources often portends economic disaster.

You have confused a hadith (not from the Quran) Sunan Ibn Majah Vol. 1, Book 1, Hadith 63 with verses from the Quran (28:38 and 40:36–37). Anybody can make a mistake. Let us try to verify as everybody will have to support with basis on what we stated, on the Day of Judgement (17:36). Even if everything remotely Islamic is removed from consideration, the things to ponder upon are indeed all the links above viz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat and https://mises.org/online-book/skyscraper-curse-and-how-austr... against this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel hmmm... food for thought on how ambition and pride can make us chase sub-optimal solutions (make us blind in other words).

Isn't it just a case of building higher and higher until there's an economic downturn. The record skyscrapers for many years will be the last ones built during the upturn.

If we see skyscrapers as an end, yes.

If they are a mean to an end it would be smart to compare them with other means.

I assume the skyscrapers are very useful, but on the other hand, the cyclical nature of building is probably extremely inefficient, so not sure about the profitability.

Sometimes governments can work against the cycle. Like build warships when drydocks don't have commercial orders and so on. I don't know if any companies or funds are big enough to do this.

The record breaking ones are often vanity projects first and built with profitability in mind second.

They're so big they are hard to fill; their architecture and floor plans are built with potential tenants as an afterthought; and because they are built at high cost, their mortgages demand premium rents that may be out of line with the general office market.

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You build a vanity skyscraper against the cycle at your own peril. The downfall of Sears is sometimes correlated with the opening of the Sears Tower in the '70s.

Per the article, it has not just the business cycle:

> the skyscraper curse involves an economic crisis, not the ordinary ebbs and flows of the typical business cycle.

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