Absinthe: From green fairy to moral panic | Hacker News Reader

Absinthe: From green fairy to moral panic

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I remember when absinthe became legal to purchase in the US again and it seemed like it might become a cool drink to get drunk and maybe a little high from. I feel like it mostly got passed over though. The high from it seems like it was over-reported; I mean alternative ways to get high and drunk are pretty common these days, I don't think absinthe could really ever compete with edibles or whatever. The taste is fairly specific and I've only had a handful of cocktails that feature it well, gin/vodka/rum/whiskey are just better bases. In fact most cocktails I've seen it in usually have something else featured with absinthe meant to spruce up the taste and color a bit.

The hallucinogenic effects of wormwood are pretty highly overstated. You’d get alcohol poisoning before you get there, at least with commercial absinthe. Can’t say what it was like in Poe’s time.

I think the main reason it got passed over is that anise isn’t popular with Americans. If you don’t like ouzo or arak or raki or pastis, you’re probably not going to love absinthe.

I'm convinced that even at that time the effects described were at best the product of getting drunk off of very high proof alcohol, and probably some opiates in their daily routine to boot.

I'll leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yO6iS5kFOc

Its true that anise is pretty unpopular. I grew up loving black licorice so its always been a nice treat to me, but the vast majority of people I know hate that taste and are pretty adamant about it.

Drank a lot of absinthe on nye once. I REALLY like the taste. If you like black licorice then absinthe is for you.

Probably placebo: i felt like my head was in the same place but my body was upside down.

This went on for less than a half hour. After initially noticing this felt completely normal. Never brought this up online but never met anyone irl who experienced this from normal boozing.

Sometimes we still get it and i drink it watered down bc its just so dang tasty.

> Sometimes we still get it and i drink it watered down bc its just so dang tasty.

For me that's the actual danger of absinthe. It is indeed ridiculously easy to drink and does not impart any of the 'fire' typically associated with spirits. And I also got the same sensation of 'body upside down'. I relate it to just how quickly my blood alcohol shot up.

not to mention you often drink it with sugar! Sweet drinks goes down easier than sour drinks!

Anecdotally, I have a similar love of licorice and had a night of too much imported absinthe where I felt like the room was spinning, but not in an alcohol way but in a "funhouse" way. I felt way steadier than I should be with that much alcohol, that it wasn't a problem with my inner ear like normally alcohol obviously is but a problem with the room.

Because it was "the room was spinning" and that is a common symptom of alcohol, I also can't claim that it wasn't a placebo effect or just alcohol sloshed memory, and most people won't believe me in casual conversation, but anecdotally it felt so weirdly different than normal alcohol "the room was spinning".

We bought a couple of bottles back from Czechoslovakia (still together back then) 25ish years ago.

All I can do is confirm that Absinthe drunk is different from most other typical alcohols kind of drunk. That said rum drunkeness made more beligerent drunk than normal drunk.

Its possibly due to trace amounts of Thujone [1], which strangely wasn't referenced in the article.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thujone

The Thujone must definitely metabolize in some way to create that feeling even at trace amounts.

While ranked lower amongst enthusiasts, I’m partial to Kübler Abinsthe. It’s always a great euphoric drunk and without the head heaviness of many alcohols once you get to a certain level of inebriation.

I make wormwood soda, which is much higher wormwood content than absinthe, and have never had a hallucinogenic state, so yes, likely heavily overstated.

Agreed, I have made wormwood tea before (taste is intense, but it does really clear your sinuses...), barely any impact on the senses (other than taste).

The psychoactives could also have been bred out accidentally or on purpose in the intervening time. Wormwood is often propagated with cuttings so if someone bred a particularly flavorful or productive plant, it can take over the market.

I imported some french absinthe as soon as I realized it was legal again in the US in 2008.

I was so excited with the glasses , spoon and the ritual.

I couldn't even finish half a glass though. It was honestly the worst drink I can ever remember having. Just absolutely terrible. Really one of the most disappointing experiences of my life for how built up it was in my head.

I still have the glasses that are so fun to drink wine out of but I would never bother with absinthe again.

Even better if in a state with legal cannabis. Absinthe glass, cannabis lemonade and a shot or two of vodka. No green fairy placebo effect needed.

Gastropod is a great listen, and they did an absinthe episode, interesting history and details.

https://gastropod.com/absinthe-the-worlds-most-dangerous-dri...

> Once the expensive drink of the French bourgeoisie and artists, absinthe became more affordable in the second half of the 19th century, whereupon workers, women and those in the French colonies, from North Africa to Indochina, began drinking it.

For a period of time Absinthe was the cheapest, strongest drink in France. Its bad reputation comes from that.

Its bad reputation is from a propaganda campaign from the wine industry which wasn’t entirely untrue, but highly exaggerated, especially compared to another alcoholic beverage.

the article doesn't dig deeply enough into why specifically absinthe triggered the panic — why not all anise drinks? What's specific about absinthe that's so psychedelic?

If anything, tequila has way more of an effect on poor judgment...

> why specifically absinthe triggered the panic

Classism and moral panic. In the 19th century, it was a poor man's liquor. Jean Lanfray's drunken murder suicide of his wife also played a massive role in that.

This was also the era of a very active and prominent temperance movement, as women were often at the mercy of alcoholic husbands and had few options for legal recourse.

You'll find similar temperance movements today in India, Thailand, Vietnam, and other developing countries.

> If anything, tequila has way more of an effect on poor judgment

Never understood that stereotype either. I love drinking Mezcal neat and that's basically aged and smokey Tequila (yes ik this is a massive simplification).

The only poor judgement it induced was me spending a ridiculous amount on niche Mezcals plus the occasional trip to Oaxaca.

I'd typify Mezcal more as "basically old band-aids and burned tires". I'm not saying this isn't a complement. But "aged and smokey" might be an almost criminally inaccurate description of Mezcal to a lay-peson

Haha yea! Taste is definetly up to the beholder!

I love smokey flavors (eg. Whiskey, Ribs, Tandoori) so Mezscal definetly scratches that itch.

That said, I usually snack on veggies (Campari tomatoes, cucumbers), light meats (salami, smoked salmon), nuts, and bread while drinking - basically zakuski - while drinking so that probably helps.

> If anything, tequila has way more of an effect on poor judgment...

Absinthe was around 70% abv. Much easier to overdose on alcohol than with 40-odd % tequila. It is although understood that there was a lot of adulterated absinthe around. And even in the presumably good stuff, the distillation techniques of the time left somewhat to be desired and the resulting drinks contained nasty chemicals (notably methanol).

That said, I still think the moral panic was completely out of proportion and, as the article mentions, absinthe ended up being a convenient scapegoat. It is very similar to how gin was seen in England.

That, and the French wine lobby.

Funnily enough 110 years later, Pernod-Ricard is the #2 spirits and liquors group in the world.

> resulting drinks contained nasty chemicals (notably methanol).

This is a popular myth for two reasons:

- you can’t make enough methanol to harm you through fermentation alone. Stories of methanol poisoning are more likely due to unscrupulous bootleggers adding it in.

- you can’t separate methanol from ethanol using fractional distillation. There are things that do fraction out, like fusel oils. Methanol isn’t one of them.

This means that the ratio of methanol to ethanol in the distilled drink will be pretty much the same as in the unfermented version. It is higher in ferments done with fruit skin, but not possible to actually harm yourself, especially in the presence of ethanol, which is used to treat methanol poisoning.

Got sources on your claims? All the sources for the second one, that I can find, say methanol and ethanol can be separated by fractional distillation, that it is isopropyl and ethanol that is troublesome due to their close boiling points. See for instance this patent https://patents.google.com/patent/US4013521A/en on purifying methanol

https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Methanol explains it well with links to sources

There are lots of incorrect sources on the internet concerning this. It’s not like there’s any organization trying to dispel the myth, and the same false claims get repeated over and over.

The separation isn't perfect, but the first vapors of distillation (the heads) are discarded precisely because they have a higher concentration of methanol.

Methanol boils at 65 C, ethanol at 78. Again, you wont get a perfect separation, but there's enough of a difference that you can get rid of a fair amount.

You’re wrong. Distillation just doesn’t work that way. There are lots of good reasons to get rid of the foreshots, but methanol ain’t one. https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Methanol

Thank you for the thoughtful answer! I’d never heard that history.

There you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thujone

A 45-74% green Anise drink for anyone wondering

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absinthe

Gin is around 35-60%

Vermouth also has artemisia (though requirements vary regionally - I think in the USA it's not essential, whereas in EU the law requires some form of wormwood).

Vermouth being the French take on the German word for wormwood - Wermut

I tried real absinthe in Spain. I believe it was slightly different from regular alcohol, but not different enough to merit a panic. I liked the taste quite a bit more than regular e.g. tequila.

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