Attention as the management of electromagnetic field lines | Hacker News Reader

Attention as the management of electromagnetic field lines

qualiacomputing.com

52 pointsstoniejohnson23 comments

I'm having a really hard time making sense of the whole enterprise of Qualia Computing/Qualia Research Institute. Like this particular subject (the nature of conciousness!) is rife with cranks, so they're starting at a disadvantage. They cite some real research published in Nature Communications, that seems at least somewhat related to their ideas, so that's promising. But then they're really (really!) focused on DMT and other hallucinogenic drugs. That's not crank-ish in and of itself, there's plenty of real research to be done on altered mental states. But, they seem a bit too excited about the altered states themselves. My general impression of the research focus and the way they write is a bit too close to like the overly excited tripping guy in your dorm room. Then the simulation is of a standing wave on a square plate, which is plainly so far from what's happening in the brain that it's a bit baffling why this would be considered relevant. Also the QRI page is really well designed and organized, which is generally not a feature of people who aren't thinking straight.

I'll concede that maybe I'm being too harsh and there's something real but unconventional here. That said, the whole presentation is like the perfect uncanny valley for real scientific inquiry. Very unsettling.

It has a very Monroe Institute / Esalen at the peak of its history when Terrence McKenna and Timothy Leary were around vibe. Think of it as smart people with wide interests and often heterodox views shooting the shit but with some funding and a quasi-academic structure.

I don’t know a ton about it but I’ve followed it for a while and that’s what it looks like to me.

We should have more of this. Much of what this kind of place generates is kooky or art rather than science, but it’s also the kind of mountain stream that feeds into things like the 1990s Santa Fe Institute that in turn helps give us modern agent based simulation — to pick one random example.

I also don’t get the sense this place has been turned into a vehicle to inject race science or other “heterodox” “just asking questions” fashy on-ramp stuff into the discourse like some other forums for free thinking.

Yeah it seems pretty harmless. I like the comparison to the Santa Fe precursors, and I definitely agree that a certain degree of more or less sanctioned weirdness is good for the environment. I think what I was trying to convey (a bit harshly) was just a sense of like “what is this??” that I got from looking through their sites.

I think your first paragraph nails it. I find the "Satori to Silicon Valley" concept plausible in the sense that when experts (who study their subject for years without psychedelics) use psychedelics it could accelerate lateral/outside-the-box thinking. The rub is that I've seen a lot of people talk a lot but achieve nothing while doing much larger amounts of psychedelics over much longer periods of time. To me this clearly shows that psychedelics are at best a minor tool (and only to those that dedicate themselves to a specific endeavor). I agree there's a place for it, but the annoying thing about funding it as research is that laymen will run with it as if psychedelics by themselves simply improves life. I don't think this is true.

I don't think you're being too harsh. If you look at the archives, it's pretty easy to see the crankism. Also why there's only 4 comments (2 top level) in the whole discussion. They are mixing the languages of science and psychedelics so thoroughly that it's hard to even comment. I agree with the current sibling reply. It doesn't seem like they have an ulterior motive, but the science is very thin. That said, I do hope they find something interesting.

> That's not crank-ish in and of itself, there's plenty of real research to be done on altered mental states. But, they seem a bit too excited about the altered states themselves.

How so?

> Also the QRI page is really well designed and organized, which is generally not a feature of people who aren't thinking straight.

In my experience, LSD/DMT doesn't necessarily cause one to "not think straight", especially if they're a regular / long-term user. It absolutely depends on the person though.

If our attention was based on the shape of magnetic fields, then shouldn't fMRI studies basically not work? Our attention modulation mechanisms would be swamped by a much larger field right? But people have normal attention near powerful magnets so this seems like a nonstarter?

My interpretation (from a quick skim) is that it's not Literally based on the shape of magnetic fields, but rather they're applying the abstract "model" of how fields work to try and model how attention works

Jk on a second glance they're taking it a bit more literally than I initially thought

I agree this specific write up is pretty unscientific, but the idea is that it’s a largely electrostatic field - obviously not literally static, but the impact of magnetism should be relatively small w.r.t. Maxwell’s equations.

I am not sure people have normal cognition/consciousness around strong magnets: MRIs are associated with slower response times and cognitive fog https://www.nature.com/articles/npre.2008.2443.1 But at least some of that might be related to magnetic dipoles at a cellular/micro-level vs. “field disruption.”

Some few years ago I did a YouTube dive into earthing/grounding tech setups, but never created a grounded mat to use while sleeping or programming. We don't use wifi for our computers (chips removed from machines and cable modem's wifi turned off) and spend very little time on cellphones in our residence, so we experience very little locally-generated EMF radiation (AFAIK), but I've not measured it for a very long time (I have a ~$200 EMF and magnetic field measurement device).

I'm curious if anyone around here has tried grounding themself while working or sleeping and noticed any difference. From a naturalistic standpoint, it seems like a valid concept to test as our pre-, say, 100ya bodies' environment had very low ambient EMF radiation. Then, before the vulcanization of rubber, our transportation when on foot, at least, was spent grounded to the earth through leather (or other natural fabric) shoes (AFAIU).

Anyway, I do notice that going to a park and spending a chunk of time leaning on a living tree or just plopping down on the ground on our cotton blanket does seem to confer a pleasant bodily result. Or maybe it's just Placebo. I don't know yet.

From what I remember or understand, grounding oneself to the Earth causes our body to be flooded with electrons from the Earth's natural resevoir, but I'm no EE, so I would appreciate some folks leveling me up by sharing their expertise with those reading this.

Perhaps grounding oneself will help harmonize our internal electical waves in a way that helps improve our concentration.

I'm also curious how grounding oneself would affect the alkalization of our body. I'm sensitive to acidic foods such as tomato paste or marinara or jalapeno. I'm no chemist, so I wonder if there would be an effect in that dimension as well.

"Nothing ventured, nothing gained." --Unknown

Thanks in advance.

I tried this for a while using adhesive medical electrodes attached to a grounding strap, in turn attached to an earthing point in my house. I didn't notice any benefit or disbenefit, but I wasn't paying particularly close attention. I'm still open to the potential benefits of 'touching grass'.

It blows my mind that it should be very easy to test and validate benefits of grounding but I haven't done it yet. The experimental design is to sleep on a grounding pad with a control device that blinds whether the pad is grounded. For me, if you can wake and tell if you were grounded or not or have some other measure that can correlate with the historical grounding circuit then cool.

The biochemical effects may not be consciously apparent, at least to most people.

All I know for sure is that up to, pehaps, 100ya, most people were in contact with the Earth for many or even most hours of their day. 200ya, we were almost all nearly always grounded. That's but a blip in our bodies' developmental history.

Electronics techs sometimes spend hours every day grounded with a wrist strap.

I certainly haven't noticed anything.

This is all pseudoscientific nonsense and irrelevant to this post.

This study, Earthing the Human Body Influences Physiologic Processes seems to have some data but am not sure how valid they are (the whole field is considered pseudo-science) - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3154031/

Thanks, but we are electrical beings whose bodies have developed over eons within the Earth's magnetic field. All cell-biologic functions are electromagnetic from the folding of proteins to how molecules are flowed into and out of cells and their organelles.

Vulcanization of rubber in the 1940s has left us mostly disconnected from the Earth ground. It is worth exploring. The unscientific call this fundamental connection with the Earth "pseudoscientific". All science is worth studying to find out what the effects are, my friend.

Sure, studying with an open mind but a critical eye. The problem is that this field attracts more than its share of cranks and woo-woo theorists and so there is a lot of sifting to do. My personal interest in this subject comes from Yoga/Qigong and seeing how it might be mapped to modern studies in bio-electricity and bio-energy.

As usual, wikipedia makes a good starting point for study - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioelectromagnetics

Incidentally, Sergey N. Makarov at Worcester Polytechnic Institute researches "human body interaction with EM fields" and has written a book Brain and Human Body Modeling available for free here - https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-21293-3 You might find some of the chapters relevant.

> studying with an open mind but a critical eye

Well said, friend.

Thanks for the links.

As to yoga, be careful "opening" yourself up to the prevailing winds of the universe. I highly suggest finding a mantra to repeat during your practices to focus on love, positivity, or simply our Creator.

Peace be with you friend, and thanks again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41538322

Thanks for the excellent write-up.

I still suggest you find a good mantra for your yoga. "Brah-man" is what I understand to be the two-syllable Hindi name of the our Creator, but India has many langauges (13 official + 8 widely used, IIUC) so there are likely others.

Peace be with you, friend. I am at your service. Thanks for your service to the truth.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41537499

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