Comment by klokan | Hacker News Reader

Comment by klokan | Hacker News Reader

Hi HN! I’m Klokan, one of the creators of TimeMap. It’s exciting to see this project here — thank you for the interest and support!

We just launched TimeMap on Product Hunt: https://www.producthunt.com/posts/timemap If you find what we’re building valuable, an UPVOTE there would mean a lot.

Stanford University recently hosted an event to introduce TimeMap to the world, which you can check out here:

* Recording on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZspMtwYI98

* Event page: https://events.stanford.edu/event/the-future-of-history-disc...

The talk dives into how TimeMap was built, including our use of Linked Data, OpenHistoricalMaps, LLM pre-processing, indexing algorithms, and more. It also highlights amazing partner projects like Pelagios, TimeMachine, and our amazing partner institutions such as the David Rumsey Map Collection, British Library, ETH Zurich and many others.

TimeMap has been a dream project of mine for years — I’m thrilled to see it coming to life and would love to hear your thoughts or feedback!

For context: I’m also the founder of OpenMapTiles.org, a MapLibre.org board member, author of GDAL2Tiles, and contributor to other open-source projects. Currently, I’m serving as the CEO of MapTiler.com.

Looking forward to the discussion, and thank you for taking the time to check this out!

Nice! Small nitpick, as a Dutchie: we changed the shape of our country quite a bit over time by reclaiming sea. The map of the area now occupied by The Netherlands was very different two thousand years ago from what your site shows.

(And this had geopolitical consequences, e.g., the invading Spanish could not cross some of the bodies of water present in the sixteen hundreds that are not there now.)

The German coast also had notable man-made changes, though far less extreme than what the Dutch did

And if you extend it even further back in time, you'd have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland there in the middle.

Which means that - Congratulations! This is only the beginning! There is so much to add, both in granularity, a year is not enough during some events. But also when it comes to geography. Or why not integrate it with google maps, to get an even more precise granularity in the 2000s when all of this accelerates.

But it is very impressive and a huge time sink to be mesmerized by!

This has been a dream project of mine too, so happy to see that it exists.

One thing that I've also wanted was to be able to reason about the total timeline using the Holocene calendar[1] instead of the standard BC/BCE AD/CE timeline. It makes it easier to internalize how long ago (or how recent) certain civilizations were without having to do the wrap-around math in one's head. Would be nice to be able to maybe toggle that view.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_calendar

Or, perhaps a bit more intuitively, an option to show the timeline as "years ago".

Thank you Kiokan, I've been looking for something like this since High School.

They way history is taught misses a lot of the context that only makes sense when you put it into a map like this one.

If you could somehow "open source" at least the data side of this, I'd be glad to contribute. I have a bunch of history books from ancient latino civilizations.

You may be interested in OpenHistoricalMap: https://www.openhistoricalmap.org, which anyone can contribute to (you can read much more about it here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenHistoricalMap). Edit: I didn't realize at first but from other comments it sounds like TimeMap actually pulls data directly from OHM.

The is such a great project. I am a little confused by the oldmapsonline.org/timemap.org thing. Are they different names for the same thing? Why is the title timemap.org, when the URL is different?

Hi Klokan,

This is a really project and really helpful to understand history. I noticed that several data points about the Portuguese Colonial Empire are wrong, is there any place where I can submit a ticket about it?

When the royal succession crisis took place in 1580, according to the blood line, the King of Spain was indeed the next in line but both Kingdoms remain independent, you can also find evidence of this in the name: King Philip III was called King Philip I in Portugal, the following one (Philip IV) was named the Philip II. In Timemap, when you check 1580, it shows the Portuguese territories with the Spanish royal flag, which is wrong because everyone understood back then that if Spain tried to dictated anything about the Portuguese overseas territories, this would be taken as a declaration of war. This is reason why the Treaty of Tordesillas was signed, Portugal and Spain divide the world and would not step on each other.

Also found things like Malacca, the flag is missing the dates of duration: 1511-1641 Same for Macau, the map states that the Portuguese rule ended in 1845 but in reality it only became independent in 1999. Many other important missing bits that, although technically they don't as territories, do represent groups, example: The city of Nagasaki was built/shaped by Portuguese merchants during 1511-1641 and was indeed under Portuguese administration during 1580-1586.

Among many other bits that would make this reply too long for HN.

Hi! It's done beautifully but there are some... inconsistencies.

Is there a process to provide feedback and correct errors on the map?

Yes! Please just use the "Feedback" button on the side of the interface - after you zoom the map and select time - then you can annotate, and it gives us most relevant context to your feedback

Cool!

If I look up the "Grand Duchy of Lithuania" on wikipedia, the years for the state do not match the data on the map. Is it because the data is disputed, or Wikipedia is wrong or there is a bug on the Timemap?

Where is the Feedback button ? It is not shown in my map.

There is a mistake, The "Northern" is missing from the Republic of Northern Macedonia.

The map doesn't go that close to the present.

"Northern" was added to the name in 2019, before it was just Republic of Macedonia.

> "The Prespa agreement of June 2018 saw the country change its name to the "Republic of North Macedonia" eight months later." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Macedonia

The UN recognised name before the Prespa agreement was "former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_naming_dispute

This user does seem to be correct despite the (at least current) reception of their report, e.g. see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Member_states_of_...

I agree it probably makes sense for the map to use UN recognized names of the time for times the UN was around and had recognized names for. Whether or not it's the absolute best answer in a given situation... it at least provides a definitive source to defer to for the modern period where the most debates might come from. For more historic names other methods need to be used and blended to the modern names which is sure to be a treat of user debate :).

That was not a "name" but a description.

I don't see the "Feedback" button. I'm using the Vivaldi browser (based on Chromium, I think).

Most of the place names are clickable, with the notable exception of Israel (both Judah and Samariah) around 900 BC, and for Israel (the united monarchy) around 1000 BC. The mouse cursor changes shape, but nothing happens if you already have the Wikipedia panel open; if it's not already open, you get a blank panel. Broken link?

Israel/Samaria should probably point to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Israel_(Samaria), Judah to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Judah, Israel/united to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Israel_(united_mona....

uBlock Origin hid the feedback button for me. It's possible a similar extension or built in blocking functionality in Vivaldi may be doing the same to you.

I can second this. This problem happens on Firefox as well.

Is it possible to show contested territories? Ex Oregon territory/British Columbia

This would be a very important feature to me! Very interesting to understand the dynamics of it, before and after changes, how long areas were contested for etc.

Great freaking work. Have been waiting for someone to do something like this for years.

We also would have some inputs on some of the short-lived territories in the U.S. West that were important and had a role in later regional development. How much do we need to substantiate the addition of a specific territory to the project? Aside from the "lost state of Franklin", there were territories like Jefferson/Colona, Huron, Lincoln, Shoshone and a number of others that pop up from the late 1850's up to the 1890's.

Will such feedback lead to improvements in your own hidden data or https://www.openhistoricalmap.org or both?

"inconsistencies" that's a friendly way to put it. The data is severely lacking for the world before the bronze age collapse. Upside: it can only get better over time.

Indeed, any contribution to https://www.openhistoricalmap.org is welcome.

Yes I'd like to report the error of Taiwan being labeled "Republic of China"

That is in dispute and depends on which party is in power, by the year. Until general elections were opened up in the late 80s, it was definitely the Republic of China.

Which party in power ever changed the constitutional name? It's always been the Republic of China.

The Democratic Progressive Party led coalition would change the name on the passport the government issues when it is in power. It would revert back when the Koumingtang led coalition comes back into power. It falls in line with what the constituents want, and it isn't as if opinions of the citizens are uniform or a clear majority.

The situation is fairly complex.

Since this is intended as a historical map going beyond the Bronze Age, there weren't always a thing called a constitution or international law. So while this does apply to whether we call this polity, "Taiwan, ROC" or "ROC" or "Taiwan", whether something is constitutional or not will not always apply historically.

Take a look at what is written on a Taiwanese passport.

That changes depending on when it is issued, and which coalition is in power when that passport was issued.

Interesting. It seems a bit slow but perhaps that's my laptop.

Why are the boundaries of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden not shown for the Kalmar Union? They are for England at Scotland in 1620 when they were under the personal union of James, (VI of Scotland I of England). What's the reason for the difference?

Also the Ottoman Sanjaks are not distinguished. Perhaps only top-level boundaries are shown.

Really amazing site. I could spend hours on it. Only real suggestion: I’d like to see more stuff. Layers for notable events in different categories besides just battles. It would need some curation but user- submitted content. Or maybe use ai to find various time/place on Wikipedia and decide if it is “notable”.

Ux is great but I got in a state in maps where I couldn’t get back the control at the top that lets you pick people/battles without refreshing the page.

Thank you for this awesome project.

Question, why Ferdinand III does not appear under people during 1200s on the Hispanic area?

He is arguably the most important historical figure during that time period:

- Unified Castille and Leon

- Lead the reconquest that resulted in what is Spain today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_III_of_Castile

EDIT:

He was the literally the directly responsible of the map changes during that era

This is something I've wanted to see for years - thanks so much for building this - is there a way to suggest edits? Perhaps a way to link a wikipedia account in order to create an article?

It would also be cool to have filters of pre history, Hunter Gatherer, Early Farming, Bronze age and so on!

This is awesome! I've been thinking about making something like this, but felt like a huge undertaking. One of the major reasons I wanted it was to visualize how (ie under which treaty) were boundary lines moved or redrawn.

Be careful assuming that the dates are correct and that the borders are drawn exactly where they should be. This map is a great guide, but don't base decisions on it.

Also many historical treaties did not define borders to the level of detail they we are used to today.

I was so excited to see this project as I was dreaming of such a thing, followed by immediate disappointment that west coast indigenous territories aren't included. Curious how what appears on the map or not is decided, is it just repackaging existing data sources? Are those sources editable by anyone (like OSM)?

Either way, good job! As a low key OSM contributor, this motivates me to contribute to the mapping, if data can be added by the public.

This is a well implemented and remarkably responsive version of what I've always wanted--a map that travels throughout all of human history. I'm so happy to see this today, honestly.

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