Comment by jameslk | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jameslk | Hacker News Reader

Cold emailing isn't very popular here, and in general I don't know anyone who likes receiving cold email. I don't think the problem is cold emailing, but the way it's done. Most cold email is irrelevant and not helpful.

Here's an example taken from this handbook:

> Hey Matt —-

> Friend of mine told me about Za-zu last week. Congrats on the recent raise.

> Random, but noticed you've got a few jobs open for SDRs.

> Reason I'm reaching out is I run a cold outbound agency. We can send at 17x the volume of a typical SDR, and our emails are usually twice as effective. Have generated $1B in pipeline for companies like Angellist.

> Worth a chat this week?

> - Person Who Writes Better Emails

I actually get emails like these all the time and I mark them as spam. Because they're spam.

Instead of sending me this email, imagine instead I received some actual leads from this agency in the first email. Like just 3 companies that are a very qualified match:

> Hey Matt —-

> Friend of mine told me about Za-zu last week. Congrats on the recent raise.

> Random, but noticed you've got a few jobs open for SDRs.

> Here's 3 qualified leads you might be interested in:

> Company 1 and why it's qualified

> Company 2 and why it's qualified

> Company 3 and why it's qualified

> Those leads have expressed interest in your service. I run a cold outbound agency. Have generated $1B in pipeline for companies like Angellist. Worth a chat this week?

Now that's helpful. I actually know this company could provide some value. Maybe I'll actually respond because I want some more.

Being relevant and very helpful is really hard to do at scale. You have to actually do some work to learn about the company, the person, and provide something tangible that's valuable. For some products/services, it might be possible to do at scale. Until then, it's really just spam by a different name.

They are both spam and you are making the world worse. Congratulations on being part of the problem.

out of curiosity, how do you feel about cold emails asking for a conversation?

I am currently looking for a new job (potentially in a new industry), so I'm doing cold outreach to people whose experience seems relevant and/or interesting, asking for advice, and usually a phone call in which I can pick their brain

would you also view my emails as spam? if not, would you bother replying?

If you’re genuinely interested in a conversation, I think that’s different. If you’re reaching out to someone who you admire/‘know’, that’s you making an effort at a genuine human connection.

What I get are emails that say ‘I would love to write articles for your audience, please respond if you would like to see a sample.’ My site clearly doesn’t publish 3rd party articles. And if you were that keen, just send me the damned sample.

You’re okay.

I get those exact same article spam emails. I always wonder what the angle is there, whether they are farming SEO juice or what the deal is.

I've always assumed that they charge you for publishing.

I always try to respond if I get an email in a personal capacity asking for advice and the person doesn't seem to be trying to sell me on something, scam me or otherwise ruin my day. Sometimes I'm a bit snowed under so it takes me a while to dig out my inbox and get to replying but I always try to.

In your specific example I wolud absolutely respond if someone needed a bit of help getting a job or whatever but I would be wary. I have had people pretend that is the case and then they are actually trying to sell me some offshore development team or whatever. So sadly I have to be a bit more guarded than I would normally like.

> I don't know anyone who likes receiving cold email.

I enjoy submitting cold eMail to SpamCop.

But beyond that, no.

For me, they are both spam

The example email presumes the recipient who's getting it actually needs the service. I'd be happy if someone did free work for me. If you don't need the service, then yes it's irrelevant either way and effectively spam.

But maybe there's some other reason you think the free work or email is spam?

>But maybe there's some other reason you think the free work or email is spam?

Is 'they are sending me a cold email' not enough?

I'd trust the content of a cold email even less than info from car salesmen if that were possible.

I think it's personality and experience.

Agreeableness and openness to new experiences are 2 of the 'Big 5' personality traits. Some people are very likely to see everything as an opportunity, assume positive intent, and want to give someone a chance. If one thing doesn't work out, it was one thing, and the next thing is completely different. I imagine cold emails work very very well with these people. Lots of these people exist.

I'm not on the same side of the spectrum for either of those traits. I usually see these things as a waste of time I didn't ask for. My own experience with sales people makes me distrustful of their intentions. If one thing doesn't work out, I think all the next things that look like it won't work either. Cold emails don't work for me; case studies, hands-off demos, etc. where I am researching you, I have approached you, and I feel like I am controlling the engagement with you, work better.

I don’t feel open to this theory of yours.

>> Agreeableness and openness to new experiences are 2 of the 'Big 5' personality traits. Some people are very likely to see everything as an opportunity, assume positive intent

I'm naturally introverted, but I actively overcompensate for it. Over a decade ago, i tried to open my mind to chance conversations. I'd engage in any conversation with anyone -- cafes, grocery stores, etc. Unfortunately I ended up just getting invited to MLM meetings and occasional proselytization. Folks doing the proselytization were actually genuinely friendly, though I wasn't interested in converting. The MLM folks were the worst.

Eventually, I ended up back where I started -- only taking random conversations at work or technical events or set social events (e.g., sports)

I think you’re right that personality traits could be a large factor to how someone perceives cold email skeptically and negatively. Some may be wary of it as a default and some may never allow themselves to be sold to no matter what.

That said, I think cold email is often abused (like any selling, promotion, or advertising can be) where many actors take it too far. This is another factor that I think gives cold email a bad perception by default. It’s just much easier to do things at scale and play the numbers game, so that’s what gets us here.

The first time I received one of these lead agency emails I was actually open to trying it and responded to it. After the thousandth time of receiving the same message, it goes to spam without a second thought.

> But maybe there's some other reason you think the free work or email is spam?

I don't know you and never asked you for what you consider free work (which is basically some stupid script fetching data). Your trash isn't free work for me, just someone trying to make easy money.

As a side note, most agreeable people trying to sell shit is a terribly rude buyer. If you don't believe me, start replying to cold emails selling something back to them. Even better, use a different email and send a cold email too.

Further, the free work is not free for me to take time to evaluate it. It’s asking me to give up precious chunks of schedule to research it. I have other priorities.

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