Comment by hintymad | Hacker News Reader

Comment by hintymad | Hacker News Reader

It used to pain me that the US education system had such a low standard on math. Like in the 7th-grade textbook Common Core Advanced, students are asked to "show that 3(x+2) = 3X + 6", and the answer is to use a f&*@ing table that lists a few actual calculations. And my kid's homework on pre-algebra is something like calculating "-1 - (-5)". Nothing wrong with that, but I guess there's problem if every problem is as simple as that.

But then over the years, I realized that Americans simply didn't think math is that important to everyone, as the meme illustrates: https://www.reddit.com/r/EngineeringStudents/comments/pd6hhc...

So, the high schools by default just teach the very basics: some calculation, some definitions, and etc. Those who want to go deeper have to push themselves. I guess nothing is wrong with this approach, as indeed only a small percentage of people would use maths harder than Common Core day in and day out. On the other hand, I do feel a lot of ordinary kids would miss out - they could be come decent engineers, if someone pushed them or showed them the way when they grew up in high school.

US math education is extremely unequal. The private highschools, selective academies (Stuyvessant in NYC, Thomas Jefferson Highschool in Virginia, High Technology High School in NJ, etc), and the public high schools of the wealthiest suburbs are much more stringent. There is a huge difference between your "average" US high school that might get 20 kids through AP Calc A, bad ones that might get none, and the good schools that get almost ALL of the students through at least AP Calc A or Stats and some through BC.

> US math education is extremely unequal.

Yes! All the lefties are crying inequality, yet they miss the obvious: enforce high academic standards everywhere like many other countries do.

Lefties often fill the ranks of elite private schools like the ones described above.

There are a set of beliefs which one can hold personally because they are shielded from the consequences of living on that belief. Since the wealthy and liberal are not as dependent on society, they often voice opinions that are more transgressive (like removing advanced classes for "equality")

I don't think USA's wokeism has anything to do with communism/socialism.

The oppressor/oppressed framework seems shared by both

One's about changing things and one's about showing that you're morally superior.

Enforcing high school standards is exactly what "lefties" are trying to do, but it's undermined by school choice vouchers (about to become a lot more prominent).

Instead we should follow Finland's example and get rid of private schools altogether.

> Enforcing high school standards is exactly what "lefties" are trying to do

How?

> but it's undermined by school choice vouchers

How do school vouchers undermine enforcement of standards?

> Instead we should follow Finland's example and get rid of private schools altogether.

I fail to see what is the relationship between private schools and enforcement of standards

because private schools aren't regulated the way public schools are (it's one of the main reasons of them being private)

> because private schools aren't regulated the way public schools are (it's one of the main reasons of them being private)

I am not sure I understand how this sentence addresses any of the question above.

What about the elite academies like Philip Exeter (and their sister schools)? How's the education there? They produced tons of tech alumni like Zuckerberg.

They are indeed grinders, and I consider families who go to such schools do push themselves. After all, they paid $40K+ a year for the education and the kids are either talented or are willing to prepare for the entrance test, and they are willing to take on the challenges given by the school. Besides, such schools are exceptions instead of norms.

People often don't realize what they're missing out on: how many tasks become dramatically easier with even basic mastery of high school math, coding fundamentals, or keyboard shortcuts.

Consider those who can't create a pivot table in Excel or perform equivalent calculations in tools like Pandas, R, or SQL. Most don't think they need these skills, and they're technically right. They can get through life without ever aggregating data, resorting to manual methods when necessary.

But they'll encounter countless situations where these skills would offer a faster or more elegant solution to their challenges. Since they can't see these missed opportunities, they assume they don't exist.

> I do feel a lot of ordinary kids would miss out ...

Or maybe simply miss out on being properly educated so that science and engineering isn't magic passed down by the authority of the ordained clever people wearing the robes but instead something that can be understood.

It's actually quite difficult (impossible?) to have an informed opinion on any government policy if you don't understand some stats and probability. Yet the newspapers are dominated by people writing who completely lack this understanding.

Common core was rammed through to prod without proper a/b testing or canarying. All the criticisms of the "New Math" of the 1960s are just as applicable to it today. See Morris Kline's «Why Johnny Can't Add» on archive.org.

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