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Comment by hermitcrab | Hacker News Reader

There is an important difference. With stocks, the punter wins on average. With gambling, the punter loses on average.

You can still lose all your money on stocks, with a combination of bad choices and bad luck. But it is much easier to lose it on the horses.

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The punter does not win on average with stocks due to fees and spread.

IIRC average stock market returns have historically been around 7% per year. Index funds charge around 1% per year.

My stock ISAs have gone up pretty much every year (after inflation and fees).

Putting your money into an index fund is the exact opposite of what is being advertised, e.g. trading platforms optimized for day trading, complete with blinkenlighten and "learn to trade" mini courses teaching technical indicators and other voodoo nonsense.

There is a reason they spend loads of money on ads trying to get you into day trading. ;0)

> Index funds charge around 1% per year.

You're getting ripped off, you should be paying a small fraction of that.

Vanguard UK charge 0.06% to 0.6% per year on their index funds: https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/what-we-offer/all-product...

Plus a 0.15% account fee: https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/what-we-offer/fees-explai...

Most others charge more.

That 0.6% one is actively managed. The true index funds on that list are charging 0.2% or less (0.12% for most of the ones you'd want). So 0.27%-0.35% all-in. I stand by 1% being be a rip-off.

1% is quite extreme, the S&P 500 fund I use (FXAIX) charges .015% per year which is almost 70 times less expensive than 1%.

Indeed, I am mostly in ASX:IVV (another S&P 500 ETF) and it charges 0.04% per year.

> Index funds

That's not what the ads for the stock trading platforms want you to do

I was very careful with my words. I said:

> The punter does not win on average with stocks due to fees and spread.

Literally 100% of my investing is the stock market. I have so much faith in the stock market that I rent because I don't want to waste the opportunity cost on equity in property.

A punter is informal slang for a person who gambles. I buy and hold a diversified portfolio of index funds over decades. I am very much not a punter.

It seems there is more than one definition of 'punter'. I meant it as 'customer/client'. But other sources define it as 'a person who gambles, places a bet, or makes a risky investment'.

I'm only familiar with the latter definition. My mistake I guess.

>My mistake I guess.

Not really. There just seems to be more than one meaning, and we were each aware of different ones. The meaning might vary by country (I am in the UK).

It was a mistake because I got downvoted by issuing a correct statement (if punter is interpreted as a gambler).

I am from the UK but moved to Australia about 35 years ago

>It was a mistake because I got downvoted by issuing a correct statement (if punter is interpreted as a gambler).

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

https://xkcd.com/386/

;o)

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