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Comment by amtc80 | Hacker News Reader

It isn't illogical. Americans move to suburbs because there aren't enough affordable cities. Then they complain about the cost of gas, energy, housing and taxes which are inherently worse with lower density.

Suburbs aren't for standard of living, but affordability. You take the most available labour, the most available construction, and connect it with the most available transportation and you get suburbs. All without the need for much effective planning, organization or innovation.

But eventually someone else does those things. And then suburbs are expensive in comparison.

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Suburbs are for standard of living, for me.

I want more space, both in my home and in my yard, than I can get in the city. I want a 2+ car garage where I can build and drive a go-kart with my kids, fix my own car and have a little workshop to do woodworking.

I want a garden that isn't blanketed by city air, and room for some fruit trees. I want room for a fire pit, and enough trees that I don't have line of sight into my neighbors windows.

I don't want a farm. I don't need country living. Somewhere between 0.25 and 0.5 acres is about right for what I want to do, and that means the suburbs.

I live in a Cologne, Germany right now. I have lived in Sao Paulo in the past. Big cities with lots to offer. I know big cities and their conveniences, and they're fine. But for the life I want to live, suburbs offer a better standard of living.

That is still affordability. When cities are expensive you get more for you money in a suburb. A hobby room, home office or cooking space. But the cost of suburbs are inherently expensive. So when cities are affordable you get more for your money in a city. Because you get some space but also better access to things like offices, makerspaces or restaurants.

I don't want to rant to much, but most people don't like woodworking. They even less like doing woodworking on their own. It is something they conclude they should do because they can and don't have many alternatives. I'm sure it is covered somewhere online.

The first point is reasonable enough, but the point still stands you can't find the same size house in the city for the suburb price. Most cities simply don't have more than a handful of spacious houses with big yards.

Your second point is invalid, as you're arguing against his assumptions. It's only possible to argue againt someone's logic, arguing someones assuptions is the same as calling names. I like woodwork and have alternatives.

You don't need the same space. That is the point. Yes, if I lived in a suburb I would also want more space because everything else would be harder to do.

I'm not arguing against their assumption. I said most, that isn't them. This is exactly why I didn't want to elaborate, so I won't.

what if I want the same space? that's the assumption

That is the thing many young people don’t see until they have a kid and realize how much more difficult urban living is with kids unless you have a lot of money. Cities eat your time when you have kids.

Seems like you would spend an inordinate amount of time chaperoning kids around. Unless of course you can afford a driver.

A house with a big yard in the suburbs is the epitome of “standard of living” as far as I’m concerned. I’d take that over a walkable city block any day (personal choice, of course, I’ve lived in both).

Yeah, I live in a rural area and cities make my skin crawl. I'll take my quiet space with lots of room for my kids to play, explore, and to garden and grow food. Where I know everyone and we all have each others backs. Where the vegetation is natural, and there's plenty of bugs and birds, amphibians and mammals. Clean air and clean water. Surrounded by miles and miles of forests.

So many of the things people love about cities are the things I want to get away from, and would sacrifice a huge amount of income to do so.

The suburbs offer people a little taste of that magic and it's no suprise people want that.

You don't have to ban cities to get all that though, there are such areas all over Europe as well just that people prefer the density more until they have kids, and then they move further out to get a house with a yard and need a car.

I've lived in a rural area for 20 years, and I still miss the city

  I've lived in both and prefer the suburb. Inner city has all sorts of issues, from very little space, smokers puffing away as you try to enter/exit buildings, endless harmful noise & smells. 

 Actually I prefer rural over either of these..

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